Reference Number on Cash Account

Hi

I was under the assumption that i could use the Reference number field on the cash accounts section of Manager to match my physical cash receipt that i give my customer. That works fine and shows up on the sales invoice once its been paid. Shown below as cash receipt #59.

cash-receipt-on-invoice

However when i withdraw funds from the cash account as drawings for myself it also receives a reference number but i dont write myself a physical receipt when i do that so now the reference numbers get out of sequence. As shown below.

So maybe thats not what i wanted. Have i misunderstood this part of Manager?

I cant remove the reference numbers now any more either. If i delete the reference number from one of the transactions and save it, it automatically adds the reference number back and follows the numbering sequence. So is there a way i can completely remove the reference numbers now?

Thanks

You could for the withdrawals, overwrite the ref no with your own ref before clicking update.
But just make sure that it remains lower then the cash receipt numbering or just use alpha.
The auto numbering always remembers the last highest number used.
As you have found out, leaving blank doesn’t work

Yeah i guess i could just put an ‘a’ for the reference number for any withdrawals but its not a great solution since i would have to remember to do it every time and who know what issues will be caused by future updates of this software.

An option to just not use a reference number on withdrawals would seem better.

Any other ideas out there?

Well, I wonder why you are worried about the sequence of reference numbers. They are just reference numbers. Customers see one receipt. If they purchase again, whether in a day, a week, or a month, and if they happen to examine their receipts for reference numbers, they have no way of knowing what the intervening numbers were for. And why would they care?

But if you are really intent on keeping once sequence for customers, you could do the following:

  • Create a second cash account for your capital draws.
  • Use the first cash accounts for customer receipts and the second for capital draws.
  • When the capital draw account gets low, use an Inter Account Transfer to move money from the first to the second. Inter Account Transfers have a separate sequence of automatic numbers.

@Tut
I guess the reason i care is because the Reference Number is now located on the invoice after its been paid as shown in my first image above (Cash Receipt #59). This wasn’t the case in the version i was using (17.4.xx). So it would be nice if the numbers matched up for the customer and myself.

Thanks for your idea, it sounds interesting and I will give it a try if there is no other way around it.

But they do, unless I misunderstand what you mean. As I understand your workflow, you issue a sales invoice to the customer. Then you receive cash from the customer to satisfy the sales invoice. The cash receipt has an automatic reference number applied by Manager. You give the cash receipt to the customer. So the customer has a certain reference number on the cash receipt, and you have the same reference number on the receipt in your records. I don’t see where the problem is.

What difference does it make that cash transaction #59 is for a customer receipt and #60 and #61 are for your capital drawings? Perhaps the next transaction, #62, is also a customer receipt. So what?

@Tut
So the cash receipt has a number on it e.g 60. So I set the reference number on the sales invoice to 60. So that’s all good. Then I withdraw the cash in the cash account as drawings and it also receives a reference number. So the withdrawal get the reference number of 61.

Now when I come to my next cash paying customer they receive a cash receipt with the number 61 but in Manager the reference number for the cash payment becomes 62 since 61 is used because of the withdrawal. So the numbers are now out of sync.

Maybe what I’m doing is not proper procedure? Your suggestion above and also @Brucanna 's suggestion would work for my situation though so if that’s what I have to do then so be it.

I hope the above makes sense.

the cash transactions, irrespective of payment received, payment made, withdrawals or drawings, are all sequential transactions happening in a cash account. so it does not matter to your customer whether the receipt received by them has a sequential or intermittent reference numbers as long as they have a record that matches your records.

but if for your convenience you need to distinguish the type of transaction, you can just add a prefix as per your choice. but you will have to do this manually for every transaction.

you can also use the Description field to distinguish transactions or create a custom field with a drop-down list of the type of transactions which you can select when entering a receipt.

Your most recent post suggests you are doing things out of sequence and possibly unnecessarily.

The normal practice is to issue sales invoices only for credit sales. That means the customer will pay some time in the future, not at the moment of the transaction. The result of a sales invoice is an increase in the customer’s Accounts receivable balance. Later, when you receive the customer’s money for the sales invoice, you post the receipt to Accounts receivable. These two transactions could be separated by weeks or even months. And there is no reason for the receipt to reference anything but its own sequence number except for the sales invoice that is being credited. So you have a receipt with a sequence number as its own cash transaction. And you have a sales invoice with a sales invoice sequence that was assigned earlier. The link is the sales invoice number.

It sounds like you are issuing what you call a “cash receipt” first, then entering a sales invoice and putting the receipt number on the sales invoice. Not only is that backwards, but it creates two other problems:

  1. Cash receipts are not linked in Manager’s database to customer accounts, even when you put the customer’s name in the Payer field. Cash receipts are meant to record current movements of money. If a customer buys something over the counter and pays immediately, that is the only transaction you need. You don’t need a sales invoice.

  2. If you subsequently create a sales invoice, but do not later enter a receipt posted against Accounts receivable for that customer, you will just build up an Accounts receivable balance that is never reduced.

If this is not what you are doing, please explain your workflow in more detail.

What they have is the situation which was clearly explained in the opening post: “I could use the Reference number field on the cash accounts section of Manager to match my physical cash receipt that I give my customer” and “I don’t write myself a physical receipt . . . . so now the reference numbers get out of sequence.”

In another words they have a pre-numbered cash receipt book which they write out when they receive a cash payment. They use to be able to (before updating) align that cash receipt book number with the Receive Money reference number inputted into Manager.

However, with Manager implementing automatic reference numbering and displaying that numbering on the Sales Invoice, that numbering got out of sync (1) when a withdrawal transaction occurred as it added in an additional (automatic) transaction number, which didn’t relate to the Cash Receipt book and (2) when the Sales Invoice was created (regardless of its timing) it showed a Manager Receive Money reference number as #59 (from the first post) instead of the actual Cash Receipt docket number (say #57) in the possession of the Customer.

Hence, the Customer has conflicting information, actual receipt number #57 v’s Sales Invoice receipt number #59.

@justinmulligan did not actually say that. He could have been referring to a cash transaction generated in Manager. If, in fact, a separate, pre-numbered cash receipt book is being used, that is an unnecessary step. He could resolve the problem by doing everything through Manager, either by a single-step cash receipt or a two-step sales invoice followed by cash receipt. If a pre-numbered receipt book is being used, he has to duplicate the transaction in Manager anyway. Why enter the receipt twice?

@justinmulligan also mentioned not writing himself a cash receipt for capital drawings. Of course he should not do this, as a draw is a payment. But since the draw must be entered into Manager, it is going to have a reference number anyway. An unrelated receipt book makes keeping things aligned a fairly hopeless cause.

Yes they did in post #7 - “So the cash receipt has a number on it e.g. 60. . . . . . Now when I come to my next cash paying customer they receive a cash receipt with the number 61” - the next pre-numbered cash receipt.

But they clearly weren’t if one had fully read and fully understood the facts as they were presented.

I wouldn’t be so presumptuous as to tell the user how to run their business, it is clear from their posts that they fully understand their business / customer requirements.

This assertion assumes that Manager is located where the cash is being received.
Also, had you even considered the possibility that Manager isn’t being updated daily.

Read the above response.

In your narrow view.
Firstly, the receipt book is not an unrelated item in their business and secondly the user had a perfectly functioning process prior to updating Manager. The feature changes in that Manager update had an impact upon that functioning process, so the user came to the forum looking for solutions (workarounds) as to how to accommodate those feature changes within their functioning process.

Clearly for some it didn’t.

You are making assumptions, @Brucanna. Nowhere has @justinmulligan mentioned pre-numbered cash receipts. You assumed that is his workflow and everything you’ve said, including your insults, flows from your assumption. You accuse me of not understanding the facts as they were presented, but what you assume are the facts were not presented. So rather than engaging in your favorite hobby of one-upsmanship, why don’t we wait and see what @justinmulligan tells us about the actual workflow?

@Tut
@Brucanna
Thank you both so much for your input. I don’t want this to get out of hand so hopefully we can all relax a little :slight_smile:

I will try to cover everything again and some info I missed to help clear things up.

First i will mention that i have a physical cash receipt book that is pre number that i give to anyone who pays cash as @Brucanna mentioned . I also send them a sales invoice.

With version 17.4.79 which i have installed as the Desktop version opening a local .manager file, the Sales Invoice never mentioned anything about a Cash Receipt, as shown below. Hence i never thought to worry about putting a reference number on any of my cash transactions in Petty Cash/Cash Accounts. I no longer use this version by the way, its just for my reference

Below is the cash account section on Manager 17.4. Notice no # column since i never added a reference number.

I recently installed the Server version of Manager using 18.4 on a different machine, and quite a bit has changed. For one, now the invoice shows a Cash Receipt # as shown in the very first image at the opening of this thread. So I thought to myself that it would be good if the physical receipt i gave the customer matched the Sales Invoice that they received also. That works well until i take money out as drawings because drawings adds to the reference count so the reference number and the physical cash receipt will become out of sync.

Here are the steps i would usually take for a cash paying customer. These maybe incorrect so if my procedure is wrong them i am willing to change.

  1. Create Sales Invoice in Manager for customer before arriving at customers premises.

  2. Complete work

  3. Finalise Sales Invoice and receive payment. The customer pays cash and then i will get out my physical cash receipt book and write it up. I will also mark the Sales Invoice in Manager as being paid into the petty cash account then email them a copy. I do this so they have a record and i can see in the Emails tab that I’ve sent it, i guess that’s probably not necessary though.

That’s all i would do before the upgrade of Manager. Since the upgrade i have added checking that the physical cash receipt number and the reference number match the Cash Receipt (Reference Number) in the Sales Invoice.

In thinking more about having pre-numbered cash receipt book reference numbers match with Managers reference number, it may not be the best idea because im not sure if i can get the correct numbering when i next need to purchase a receipt book. For example i have a cash receipt book that goes from 51-100 now but im not sure if i will be able to get one that goes from 101-150 next or what the numbering will be. So maybe the best solution for me would be to go back to the way Manager used to be where the Cash Receipt was never mentioned on the Sales Invoice. Or i just don’t issue physical cash receipts as @Tut mentioned, then i dont have to worry about what Manager does with the Reference number.

Anyway i hope that covers it and makes things more clear. Please let me know if there are any more questions.

Thanks

providing service at the customer place would require a cash receipt book in most cases.
what i would recommend is design a cash receipt book without serial numbers. this way you can write the next reference number in sequence that would be recorded in Manager.

Thanks for the additional information, @justinmulligan. It prompts several thoughts:

The first is that, since Manager now automatically numbers cash transactions (at the behest of many users), it would be a constant headache trying to make the reference numbers match an external receipt book’s prenumbering. And, as you pointed out already, that scheme could easily break down when you next buy a receipt book.

Second, is your business literally run entirely on cash? And likewise, do you always take your drawings in physical cash? Or do customers sometimes pay by cheque or credit card? And do you write cheques to yourself? If so, these should entered as bank transactions, not cash transactions, which would introduce an entirely different sequence of reference numbers that are not assigned automatically by Manager, but are meant to mirror the bank’s assigned number. Obviously, that would completely sink your scheme.

Third, why are you issuing sales invoices at all? Sales invoices are for sales on credit. But it sounds like you are always being paid immediately. This qualifies as a “cash sale,” even if paid by cheque or credit card. If you can prepare a sales invoice before arrival, you can also prepare a cash or bank receipt before arrival. Or, you could write a paper receipt as you do now and enter the cash or bank receipt upon return to the office. You just won’t have the built-in parallelism of numbers you used to have. But that can be handled by sending the customer a copy of the computer-generated receipt. You could add a custom field where you record the number of the paper receipt. For more about cash sales, see this Guide: Manager Cloud. The only reason to use sales invoices in your situation is to preserve records of your customers’ buying history. (That, of course, can be sufficient justification, but it imposes the need for two transactions: invoice and receipt.)

Fourth, you say you create the invoice before arriving at the customer’s premises. But you then say you “finalize” the invoice and receive payment. How do you finalize the invoice? If you have the ability to connect remotely to Manager (using the server or cloud editions), you also have the ability to enter a receipt directly into the program while on site. So you could either keep your sales-invoice-based approach or switch to a cash-sale approach. Either way, you could dispense with the paper receipt book by emailing the transactions to the customer. (You could also carry a portable printer.)

Fifth, it is very common these days to email receipts to customers after the fact. A number of possibilities present themselves. For example, you could take your pre-generated sales invoice to the job, annotate it by hand for the customer noting receipt of payment, and email a final version that helpfully lists the payment and shows zero balance due. That avoids the paper receipt book. Without even needing a custom theme, you could fields at the bottom of the invoice for amounts received and signature. Or, if you are remotely connected, you can email the final invoice noting payments received on the spot.

The program gives you enormous flexibility. In my opinion, you can actually improve your options, though, by committing to using it fully and not trying to mix computer and paper systems. There are too many opportunities for errors. And you may well face another, similar situation when further improvements are made to Manager.

I use the cash accounts reference number to match issued hand receipt numbers. We purchase receipt books from the local stationers and each book obviously has a different sequence of numbers preceded by letters. The manager numbering sequence has worked a treat up until now (I don’t use the letters). We have just purchased our next receipt book which has lower numbers than the previous book. I would like to suggest that maybe manager could always go one number higher than the last entered or recorded number, that way I could just enter the new sequence number and away it would go, automatically. I wish also that there was a free field I could enter letters sequence in before the numbers. This would match my hand receipt books as they start with random letters like ZFH-1234567. Is remembering the last number possible. As it is, now I have to enter a reference number manually.

There are two reasons this would not work:

  • Manager does not know when you entered a transaction. Businesses often enter them out of sequence because of delays getting supporting documentation, other duties of personnel entering them, etc.
  • The approach could lead to duplicate numbers if you purchased a receipt book with the same numbers as a previous one. In many countries, it is required that receipt numbers be unique.

You could do this with a custom field. You could position that custom field wherever you like with a custom theme. But that’s a lot of work. I encourage you to think about negative aspects of trying to match a computerized accounting system with manual receipt books that have already been mentioned in this thread.

Thanks. I had mistakenly thought that manager might know my latest entries by system date. I suppose there is no way of stopping auto generated numbers now except by deleting all existing ones?

No, only by the date entered for the transaction.

That would not stop them. If you delete a reference number on any automatically sequenced transaction, Manager assigns the next number as you update it, because, at the moment you click Update, the number you just erased still exists in the database. Nothing is ever changed in Manager until you click Create or Update.