Payment rules not correctly allocating payments to expense claim payers

case 1 - the employee buys paper for his own money> the company reimburses the employee for the expenses incurred
case 2 - an employee buys paper for the company’s money, pays for it with a credit card, but does not submit the document to the company
etc …
so in this cases im always marking all card payments as a payments to the expense claim payers

@Tut is right.

Actually not!
There are 2 possibilities:

  1. employee uses his own money
  2. employer make an prepayment to the employee and then the employee make what ever needed

And the second option is the way, actually it has to be.

Don’t get too far off the subject?

The question was why the bach update doesn’t fill the payment with Payeer, if account is Expense claims.

In previous versions, it worked correctly.
Unfortunately, I can’t tell which version the error occurred with.

The selection of the sub-account within the Expense Claims in the Payment rule does not work - the subaccount (the expense claim payer) is not entered.

This certainly worked in version 21.3.61 (using Bank Rules as they were then)

IMHO - this is a bug

I would point out that this is using the expense claims feature in Manager “the wrong way around” - Manager sort of assumes that the expense claim payer pays for the expenses with his own money and then reclaims it from the business.

In this case, the expense claim payer is paying for the goods or services using the money belonging to the business.

This is exact the issue that is not working!

@gunnar.michelson, for some reason your original screen shots are now showing. There must have been a problem with the forum software. Therefore, I now understand your question better.

We are suffering from language misunderstandings. Based on the screen shots I can now see, you are trying to automatically allocate payments made to expense claim payers to offset liabilities in the Expense claims account. You are not trying to allocate expense claims themselves, as your earlier posts seemed to imply.

The payment rule you have defined for this purpose looks correct. Apparently, it does not work, because neither the Payee nor the Account is being picked up correctly on the payment form. I am moving this topic to bugs and editing the title to indicate the problem better.

The same problem could be happening with other accounts besides Expense claims, but I have no way of testing that.

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@gunnar.michelson, I do not know if it will make any difference. But it might be useful to know what format your bank statement import is in.

In Estonia banks give only XML or PDF formats. The second moment is that all bank accounts are multi currency accounts. So we have one special converter for the XML files, thats separates also currencies in different files.

Here is one example (output from the converter), first 3 rows:
,14.10.2020,COMPANY NAME1,441.97,Arve 141020-04 // COMPANY NAME1 // EE492200221013305241
,14.10.2020,COMPANY NAME2,28,141020-03 // COMPANY NAME2 // EE382200221023936833
,14.10.2020,COMPANY NAME3,235,Arve nr: 141020-06 // COMPANY NAME3 // EE361010010548894017

Okey! Then i have a question. How to use then Manager, when someone is using companys money for the expenses? Like a supplier? Thats would not work cos:

  1. by the bank reports you cant see the full company name, usually only the brand name or the store name and that not match with the company name. Example: company name Optimera Estonia and the brand name Ehituse ABC. Example2 IKEA Oy vs IKEA Online Store (by the IKEA its much more complicated, cos when you buy by the internet then its always this Online Store, but when you get the invoice its could be IKEA Finland, IKEA Estonia or even IKEA Latvia - thats mean also different countries) etc;
  2. when the accounting dosent recieve 100% all the bills? Usually some bills are lost, some bills become unreadable with heat (if they stand in the sun for a day, for example), some bills are eaten by someone’s dog etc … how to book then the card payments … you cant book them directly to the costs, cos you dont know for which they were. Bank cards are always issued in person, so when paying with a card, one particular person is responsible for these transactions. However, if the document does not reach the accounting, the company has a right of claim against the person in the amount paid. There are of course a third option, to pay the taxes - but nobody wants that. Therefore, in order to have a quick overview, it is reasonable to record all such payments in one place - by the expense claims.

I didn’t say it was wrong, I just said it was different from how Manager’s philosophy is set up

You are effectively loaning the company money to the “employees” (at least I presume that they are employees, you have not said that.

@Joe91 I just try to explain, that if you can use some function in the software in a different ways, then its more then good, thats mean, the time that was used for it developing was more useful as usually
nowdays we dont ask “can” this software do this or those, we are asking “how” - is it simple, is it convenient etc

What is the format of these output files from the converter? Your example does not look recognizable. Those three rows are also inconsistent in content and format from row to row. If that is what you are importing, I am amazed you are able to import anything at all.

This output is corresponding to this: Import bank statements | Manager

@gunnar.michelson, that Guide describes a process, not a format. My question was what format the output file from your converter is. In other words, is it .xml or .csv or something else?

If the file is not in one of the defined formats mentioned in the Guide, importing will not work. And if the format is .csv, Manager will be dealing with very limited information. Even if your output files are in a supposedly supported format, they may not contain necessary information. That is because banks often do not follow standards closely when exporting files. (And some formats themselves are very poorly specified—even being technically obsolete.)

@Tut in Estonia we dont have so old standards: *.qif, *.ofx, , *.qfx, *.qbo, *.sta, *.swi, *.940, *.iif

Here is a link for the Estonian XML standard: XML B2C & C2B communication messages — Estonian Banking Association

As you know, Manager is not supporting XML files, so we made very simple converter. If there would be some other technical information, i would to organise something much better.

Unless your converter outputs one of the specified file formats, importing bank statements will never work for you.

I am removing this topic from the bugs category, because you are not adhering to mandatory requirements. It is not a bug when Manager will not do what the program itself tells you it cannot do.

Really!? So please then provide information what kind of requirements there are!
At the moment you are just ignoring and not providing any solution, only talking and talking. I would to ask then, what kind of forum is that?

Also @Joe91 told it thats a bug.

I beg to differ.

I have a cvs file which follows the format given in the guide

19/07/2021,Claim 1,Claim 1,-50
17/07/2021,Claim 2,Claim 2,-750

When I import it using the payment rules


I get the following
but when I import

It seems to select the correct account but not the sub-account

So I do not think it is a problem of the format but rather the selection of the account and sub-account in the bank rule not being recognised correctly or not being applied correctly


OK. So this topic is still in the bugs category. That is based on @Joe91’s complete illustration with a file format the program supports.

Those are clearly explained in the Guide. @gunnar.michelson, you have resisted my request to specify your file format twice. And the sample you showed did not conform to anything Manager will handle. As a moderator, I cannot classify behavior as a bug on that basis. You did not show that the program failed to do what it was supposed to do.

I am sorry you feel that way. But you are not being ignored. This topic has gone on for 28 posts as @eko, @Joe91, and I tried to help. That was made more difficult by a forum software issue and the lack of precise information. When @Joe91 provided a comprehensive example using a file format the program supports, the behavior could be seen to be deficient.