Payment rules not correctly allocating payments to expense claim payers

[gunnar.michelson]

When im importing bank statements, then i have to manually enter all transactions by the expense claim payers.

Here is the bank rule:

Here is how it shows in the uncategorized payments list:

When i mark it and press batch update, then nothing is happening. I need to press the edit button and then i see following:

It is very inconvenient to go through 100+ transactions every month.
Or am i doing something wrong?

Manager version 21.6.76

[eko]

Try first with the today’s version 21.7.28 (checked 19 July 2021 at 11:00am GMT).

[gunnar.michelson]

No changes

[eko]

There are now only receipt and payment rules. Note that your Payee is the same as the Payer. From the screen I noticed that this is a payment rule and not a receipt rule so you can not have an income account such as 2380 associated with it as that promted for a Payer (ie you would receive money).

[Tut]

@gunnar.michelson, how did you upload your images? They all appear blank to me. Hopefully you did not attach them to or embed them in an email. They need to uploaded directly to the composing pane.

[Tut]

@gunnar.michelson

When im importing bank statements, then i have to manually enter all transactions by the expense claim payers.

By definition, payments by expense claim payers will not show up in your bank statements. Expense claims are for payments of business expenses with payers’ own funds, not business funds. So they will never show up when importing your bank statement. Can you please clarify exactly what you are referring to?

[gunnar.michelson]

@eko

There are now only receipt and payment rules. Note that your Payee is the same as the Payer. From the screen I noticed that this is a payment rule and not a receipt rule so you can not have an income account such as 2380 associated with it as that promted for a Payer (ie you would receive money).

as i understand by the expense claims (as payee) there are no suppliers or customers, i have to chosen “other” and then i choose expense claim account and also a payer
the account 2380 its liability account for the expense claims

[gunnar.michelson]

@Tut

@gunnar.michelson, how did you upload your images? They all appear blank to me. Hopefully you did not attach them to or embed them in an email. They need to uploaded directly to the composing pane.

here is upload button, so i choose the file, upload it and thats it
as usually

[gunnar.michelson]

@Tut

By definition, payments by expense claim payers will not show up in your bank statements. Expense claims are for payments of business expenses with payers’ own funds, not business funds. So they will never show up when importing your bank statement. Can you please clarify exactly what you are referring to?

case 1 - the employee buys paper for his own money> the company reimburses the employee for the expenses incurred
case 2 - an employee buys paper for the company’s money, pays for it with a credit card, but does not submit the document to the company
etc …
so in this cases im always marking all card payments as a payments to the expense claim payers

[eko]

@Tut is right.

[gunnar.michelson]

Actually not!
There are 2 possibilities:

1. employee uses his own money
2. employer make an prepayment to the employee and then the employee make what ever needed

And the second option is the way, actually it has to be.

[raivodc100]

Don’t get too far off the subject?

The question was why the bach update doesn’t fill the payment with Payeer, if account is Expense claims.

In previous versions, it worked correctly.
Unfortunately, I can’t tell which version the error occurred with.

[Joe91]

The selection of the sub-account within the Expense Claims in the Payment rule does not work - the subaccount (the expense claim payer) is not entered.

This certainly worked in version 21.3.61 (using Bank Rules as they were then)

IMHO - this is a bug

I would point out that this is using the expense claims feature in Manager “the wrong way around” - Manager sort of assumes that the expense claim payer pays for the expenses with his own money and then reclaims it from the business.

In this case, the expense claim payer is paying for the goods or services using the money belonging to the business.

[gunnar.michelson]

@Tut

Do you mean to create a bank rule allocating an imported bank transaction to Expense claims => Expense claims payer? If so, you already can:

The problem with doing so with an imported statement of a private credit card is that you must first create the credit card as a bank account of the business, because you can only import statements for bank accounts of the business. Then, after importing the statement, you would have a balance in the bank account showing up on your balance sheet that does not belong to the company. In the case of importing statements full of payments, you would have an ever-growing credit balance.

This is exact the issue that is not working!

Expense claims bank rules

I import statements of my private creditcards. Sometimes these are quite a lot of transactions. It’d be great to be able to use the Bank Rules on Expense Claims.

[Tut]

@gunnar.michelson, for some reason your original screen shots are now showing. There must have been a problem with the forum software. Therefore, I now understand your question better.

We are suffering from language misunderstandings. Based on the screen shots I can now see, you are trying to automatically allocate payments made to expense claim payers to offset liabilities in the Expense claims account. You are not trying to allocate expense claims themselves, as your earlier posts seemed to imply.

The payment rule you have defined for this purpose looks correct. Apparently, it does not work, because neither the Payee nor the Account is being picked up correctly on the payment form. I am moving this topic to bugs and editing the title to indicate the problem better.

The same problem could be happening with other accounts besides Expense claims, but I have no way of testing that.

[Tut]

@gunnar.michelson, I do not know if it will make any difference. But it might be useful to know what format your bank statement import is in.

[gunnar.michelson]

In Estonia banks give only XML or PDF formats. The second moment is that all bank accounts are multi currency accounts. So we have one special converter for the XML files, thats separates also currencies in different files.

Here is one example (output from the converter), first 3 rows:
reference,date,payee,amount,description
,14.10.2020,COMPANY NAME1,441.97,Arve 141020-04 // COMPANY NAME1 // EE492200221013305241
,14.10.2020,COMPANY NAME2,28,141020-03 // COMPANY NAME2 // EE382200221023936833
,14.10.2020,COMPANY NAME3,235,Arve nr: 141020-06 // COMPANY NAME3 // EE361010010548894017

[gunnar.michelson]

@Joe91

I would point out that this is using the expense claims feature in Manager “the wrong way around” - Manager sort of assumes that the expense claim payer pays for the expenses with his own money and then reclaims it from the business.

In this case, the expense claim payer is paying for the goods or services using the money belonging to the business.

Okey! Then i have a question. How to use then Manager, when someone is using companys money for the expenses? Like a supplier? Thats would not work cos:

1. by the bank reports you cant see the full company name, usually only the brand name or the store name and that not match with the company name. Example: company name Optimera Estonia and the brand name Ehituse ABC. Example2 IKEA Oy vs IKEA Online Store (by the IKEA its much more complicated, cos when you buy by the internet then its always this Online Store, but when you get the invoice its could be IKEA Finland, IKEA Estonia or even IKEA Latvia - thats mean also different countries) etc;
2. when the accounting dosent recieve 100% all the bills? Usually some bills are lost, some bills become unreadable with heat (if they stand in the sun for a day, for example), some bills are eaten by someone’s dog etc … how to book then the card payments … you cant book them directly to the costs, cos you dont know for which they were. Bank cards are always issued in person, so when paying with a card, one particular person is responsible for these transactions. However, if the document does not reach the accounting, the company has a right of claim against the person in the amount paid. There are of course a third option, to pay the taxes - but nobody wants that. Therefore, in order to have a quick overview, it is reasonable to record all such payments in one place - by the expense claims.

[Joe91]

I didn’t say it was wrong, I just said it was different from how Manager’s philosophy is set up

You are effectively loaning the company money to the “employees” (at least I presume that they are employees, you have not said that.

[gunnar.michelson]

@Joe91 I just try to explain, that if you can use some function in the software in a different ways, then its more then good, thats mean, the time that was used for it developing was more useful as usually
nowdays we dont ask “can” this software do this or those, we are asking “how” - is it simple, is it convenient etc