It is annoying because it feels like the module is a work in progress rather than a production use tab. I have not started using Sales Orders primarily because there was no status for orders until very recently in September.
But upon further reviewing, I just feel a: there are things that I would consider bugs and b: we need a clear direction from the developer regarding how Manager will be handling customer purchase orders in the sales orders as there was considerable difference of opinion regarding whether to use customer PO or supply customers with your own PO for the order. I don’t want to start using the sales order and setup custom fields etc for purchase orders and then suddenly it all changes to a built in purchase order field. So this point needs to have a clear direction as soon as possible.
Then once these issues have been sorted out, I would like to see movement on the Customer Portal as I really think it is a good idea but again not ready for production use.
Don’t customer statements already show order numbers for invoices?
Actually the intention is that you should use Reference field for purchase order number of your customer (if they provide one). Just like you use Reference field on purchase invoices of the invoice receive from supplier. Etc.
OK, this could be improved.
Even sales order without reference number needs to be somehow identified in dropdown.
I know it’s inconsistent but currently not sure which way is better.
I agree. This needs to be simplified. It has been on my mind.
Sales Order reference number. If you are stating that this is meant to be the customer’s purchase order reference number, then you can remove this from the ideas category. I believe that you added this to the ideas because you were originally thinking that the sales order reference number was a completely different thing from the customer’s purchase order reference number. So remove that from the ideas category.
I would highly recommend that the reference number (particularly in sales orders), but everywhere throughout the program should state what the reference number is so sales order reference should be called Customer PO number and Purchase Invoice reference number be called Supplier’s sales invoice reference. this would make it more clear what reference one is supposed to be putting in. When I started using Manager many years ago, I originally was putting in my own purchase invoice reference number and not the suppliers sales invoice reference number. Instead of just calling the field Reference - the field should explicitly name the reference to be inputted.
I will use the Sales order reference number to input the Purchase order number in. So I won’t have problems with blank reference numbers. The problem with the program putting the date in is that if you have more than one sales order on the same day you end up with two sales orders with the same reference number which you can’t have!
I actually like the sales invoice colour coding and sort order. It has worked perfectly for years and I can’t see any reason why it won’t work for quotes and orders.
Various people have discussed the inventory tracking, so I will leave that one with you.
I believe the guide already states what the reference field is for. it can be internal or external.
Sales Order is mainly an internal document which you optionally send to your customer as an acknowledgement to their PO. this SO is circulated within the departments of the business to track work progress. so it is the choice of the business what reference they wish to use. also, not every customer issues a PO and in this case a business can use internal reference sequence. so I do not think there is a need to change the label. Reference is a general term which caters the needs of every business.
the only thing odd about Manager is printing the SO on sales invoices when they are used as internal references. maybe an option to hide it when not necessary would benefit all.
There is definitely a need to clearly state what the reference number is for a number of reasons.
Purchase Invoices. It is then more clear to inexperience novice business owners using Manager what reference number one is supposed to be putting into that field.
With sales orders - read this discussion and you will see the whole point of the need to clearly state what reference number is to be used in sales orders. - Sales Order Status Problem This topic is a classic example of why the reference field needs to be defined in order to avoid the precise problem that Compuit and myself are experiencing.
Lubos has just stated that he believes that the sales order number is the customer purchase order reference number! So documentation and the program should support that otherwise constant ambiguity is the only outcome here as witnessed in the aforementioned linked topic.
where do you propose to have this statement? like I said the guide already mentions it can be used for both internal and external sequences giving a choice to the users.
again this is mentioned in the guide.
I am already part of the discussion in the other topic and I provided my views. the sales invoice displays the field as Order number which can be anything as per the choice of the business. It does not say Sales Order Number. if the user entered the PO number in the sales order reference then that will be displayed. in cases where a customer never issued a PO, the user can enter internal reference number and that will be displayed on the sales invoice.
i believe he answered in the context of your query. when user receives PO from customer they can use the Reference field to enter the same which will be displayed on the sales invoice which is your use case.
I think this and many other discussion on reference number, order number, quote number, etc., and also on prefixes, non-changeable numbers (essential for some jurisdictions) etc, shows that a rethink on how this all is supposed to work is required. Also a specific guidance how, where and what would be helpful to ensure that everyone knows how to apply these and how these effect the sequences.
The guide is vague on this and the optionality is confusing as is the terminology. It is clear that every database and query design has its pros and cons. The tradeoff is speed and for a browser and server oriented application the compromise deals with less powerful one-to-one, many-to-one, one-to-many and many-to-many possible enforced data relationships. However, we would therefore benefit from a strong recommended guide on how to ensure consistency as user. So what and when to use where.
I won’t debate the issue as I believe that the issue has been discussed at great length already in the referenced topic.
@eko is absolutely correct that the guide is vague and confusing. When I asked some years ago about what reference number to put in the purchase invoice form, I was told I could put whatever I wanted, which didn’t help me to understand the process, which is the underlying complaint in the other topic. The single biggest problem with the “you can do anything you want approach” is very frequently you do it the wrong way and then years later have to spend a lot of time fixing your past mistakes. I speak from experience on this point.
Compuit is an accountant, so more than qualified to understand these issues, yet is encountering issues with regards to this point. So clearly there is an issue that needs to be addressed.
Regarding the Sales Order Status Problem. The problem is compounded by timing when dealing with company customers. More often than not the Customer Purchase Order Number is provided after the Sales Order is generated in Manager. So to go back and edit the Manager generated Sales Order number to match the Customer supplied Purchase Order number is impractical. In addition as pointed out by some the Manager Sales Order number is an Internal reference number that must not be confused the External Customer supplied Purchase Order / reference number.
in a correct workflow, PO precedes SO and not the other way around. what precedes a PO is a sales quote.
anyway, if your workflow is to issue SO first to the customer, why do you not insist the customer to use your SO reference as their PO reference? your SO has precedence over their PO.
with the workflow you explained, you will have to edit the SO anyway even if Manager provides a dedicated field to enter customer PO number. so why not edit and enter it in the already existing Reference field?
Your assumption of correct workflow / process? This is a real world issue not all people engaged in business work the Manager way and thankfully this is not an isolated case. There is no way we will allow the crew to waste time phoning / emailing / TxT Customers for POs before generating SOs … that is crazy. Systems (Manager) are to support real world business process not the other way around where the real world is to support Manager. I am sure it can be worked out otherwise it would not be raised as pointed out by some the Manager Sales Order number is an Internal reference number that must not be confused the External Customer supplied Purchase Order / reference number.
Manager does provide support. you can utilize the existing Reference field for the PO number and use a custom field for internal references. Or you can use it the other way around. also, you have custom fields and description field to enter the PO number directly on an invoice.
I have done a bit of research on the issue looking at other accounting software and also reviewed what wikipedia says on the issue.
The net takeaway is that the sales order needs to have a sales order number and the client’s purchase order number. They are two completely different fields used for two different purposes. In addition, the sales invoice needs to include the customer purchase order number, but can optionally include the sales order number.
A sales order is an internal document of the company, meaning it is generated by the company itself. A sales order should record the customer’s originating purchase order which is an external document. Rather than using the customer’s purchase order document, an internal sales order form allows the internal audit control of completeness to be monitored. A sequential sales order number may be used by the company for its sales order documents. The customer’s PO is the originating document which triggers the creation of the sales order. A sales order, being an internal document, can therefore contain many customer purchase orders under it.
Clearly two different fields
Look at Tally’s Sales order sample format and watch their video.
The main point stated here is that the sales order number is being used in Xero for Job tracking and the client’s purchase order number is being used to link up client PO with order for client benefit - providing that the client PO is carried over to the sales invoice. Again the client has no need for the sales order number and this only adds to the confusion.
Manager does have Project Management now, but that is a separate thing from job tracking in terms of processing deliveries, ordering supplies etc. I think the job tracking Xero customers talking about here is that, not net profit tracking? End result, Xero customers also clearly want an “ours and theirs” references.
Clearly two different fields
I personally don’t need a separate sales reference number, so could in theory use the Sales Order reference field for the customer purchase order number. Then do a batch update in a couple of years time when Manager eventually implements an “ours and theirs” reference field to accommodate businesses that need an internal reference number for their departments to manage the sales order process.
It’s just a shame that simple things like this don’t get implemented by Xero and Manager when there is a clear need for this.