This is my 1st post on this board. I’m proud new owner of MANAGER I’d like to address you an issue I found on interface when Accounts statement are being viewed (while clicking on account balance): Unlike Inter-Account transfers or Payments, which default sorting method is by “Date” and “Reference Number” in descending order, in the Statement list “Transaction type” precedes “Reference Number” by it’s alphabetical order. So in fact the statement order is altered whenever I switch interface language. For instance:
[English] Inter Account Transfer precedes Payment , because “I” goes 1st in alphabetical order.
[Spanish] Pago (Payment) precedes Transferencia Inter-Cuentas (Inter-acct. transfer,) because “P” is 1st.
Can you fix it by not using “Transaction type” words alphabetical order to build this table on GUI?
I’m attaching some examples.
Why does this matter? There are many places in Manager where primary or secondary sort order is alphabetical, because that provides rational, consistent behavior. If you change language, the schemes are still rational and consistent from place to place.
These schemes are also integrated with the need to accommodate varying practices on completing fields like descriptions. Taking away alphabetical sorting would, in some cases, leave no sorting method at all.
So if you do not like alphabetical sorting, you need a comprehensive scheme to replace it that works throughout the program.
Hi Tut, thanks for quick reply. It doesn’t affect the ending balance however, from visual perspective, it looks like there was a credit or an overdraft (credit) usage to perform a payment while actually deposited funds were used instead. It just may difficult some monitorings for operations performed with accounts when a language different from English is selected for the GUI.
The same thing can happen regardless of language preference. Manager does not order transactions by time. All transactions are effective as of the end of the day.
The only way to fix this is to sort it by amount sign and then by transaction. This way transactions which are increasing balance will be placed earlier.
On many screens this has been already implemented like that.
Thanks to all for the feedback. I understand why alphabetical order is important for sorting in other reports or tables. Maybe by adding “Time” optionally along with “Date” could help make Manager statement order look more identical to actual bank account statement order. For instance if time is not set for a date it will default at 00:00:00 for all operations and default Manager order will be applied; if time is set - it will precede to alphabetical order in statement.
No, it would not. As I wrote in my earlier post, the order of processing of bank transactions is up to the bank and also depends on order of presentation of cheques, deposit slips, etc. to the processing center. So you might write a cheque one day, but the recipient might not present it for a week. Or you might deposit money in the morning, expecting to have it available for withdrawal immediately, only to discover the bank did not process it until late at night or the next day because you deposited it at an ATM. Meanwhile, although your accounts in Manager look fine, you were temporarily overdrawn.
The way I see this, this is not just about bank transactions. It’s about every screen which shows running total.
And every screen with running total (as far as I know) has the sorting implemented in a way that balance does not go negative if possible. I do not see bank transactions any different.
I agree with you, @lubos. But people have also complained in the past about transaction order in Accounts receivable, Inventory - cost, and other accounts, as well as the presentation order in Receipts & Payments, Production Orders, and other tabs.
In my view, this comes down to some users believing everything should be displayed in the order it was entered, others wanting controllable time stamps, and some wanting to magically match transaction order at their bank. No matter what the order is, someone will not be happy.
Hardly anyone makes all accounting entries in real time. Few make them in rigid date order, since information is not always available on a timely basis. So attempting to minimize negative running balances seems like a pointless task. But, if that is the way things already operate, that is as rational a scheme as any other. Fancier approaches would be a waste of effort. After all, Manager is an accounting program, which should be good at the end of day. It is not a cash register where you can open the drawer and count what is in the till moment by moment.
My complaint was about that manager can show different transactions sorts just by switching languages on the same page (check attached animation). I discovered this issue because my employee, who is native spanish and uses spanish language for manager, alerted me about that we’ve been using credit limit on bank account while on my side (I was using English gui) I didn’t notice such thing until he shared his screen to me. If, as per you say, 100% accurate sorting is not possible, can you at least make sorting equal along all languages?
I never said that. I have written about how sorting occurs and why you see differences when changing languages. Manager’s sorting is always accurate, based on the scheme in use.
This is exactly what the entire thread has been about. And I have explained why sort order changes when languages change. Please do not ignore the entire discussion so you can return to your original request.
I never said credit limits have something to do with sorting. I’m trying to say that a user can interpret that account was overdrawn at some point if he uses different gui language or switch between languages.
100% sorting accurate “compared to real bank statement”
I’m not ignoring anything you said about default sorting algorithm in Manager, I get it. My point of view is that Statement sorting should be as much equal as possible to “real transaction timeline” whenever transaction details are explicitly filled within Manager (full date, reference number, etc) and should not be altered by switching GUI language. This is a normal discussion Some people can agree, some not. I’m giving my arguments
Manager does not have your bank statement. I have already explained many reasons Manager’s sorting could differ from your bank statement. There is nothing the developer can do about that.
I understand that. But your arguments are based on a fantasy you seem to have that Manager can somehow match your bank statement, despite your bank statement depending on things beyond the control of you, your bank, or Manager and being entirely unknown to Manager.
Maybe I express myself wrong (sorry I have poor knowledge of English). Most bank accounts statements will be sorted as real transaction timeline showing right balance at the end of each row. What I want from Manager is to have a possibility to define transactions the way their list order will match to “real transaction timeline” and there will be right “real” balance at end of each row. I repeat, that ending balance is okay and I don’t complain about that. Maybe for accountants it doesn’t matter how does transactions sort whenever the final balance matches reality (real ending balance), but for business it matters. For instance: imagine we have 2 persons - Alice and Bob. Alice borrows Bob 100 dollars on morning so Bob is in debt with Alice. Later that day Bob returns Alice 100 dollars and have no debt with Alice. Recording these transactions in Manager can result in different order of sort that make seem that Actually Bob was the Alice’s creditor. This may sound like something from books of fantasy, but happens in real life too
I’d like to address you an issue I found on interface when Accounts statement are being viewed (while clicking on account balance): Unlike Inter-Account transfers or Payments, which default sorting method is by “Date” and “Reference Number” in descending order, in the Statement list “Transaction type” precedes “Reference Number” by it’s alphabetical order. So in fact the statement order is altered whenever I switch interface language. For instance:
