Billable expenses bug

Running the latest version (15.4.48) and if you click on Billable Expenses, the list shows the expenses with a status of Invoiced. However, if you click on the Edit button, the next screen shows a status of Uninvoiced. If you happen to try to correct this, the main list shows it as uninvoiced…

I had noticed this too—that the status defaults to ‘Uninvoiced’ when you hit the edit button—but I never tried correcting it. I just hit the ‘Back’ shortcut and got the hell out of there! :slight_smile:

The problem seems to be more complicated than that. I tried an experiment to understand what you were saying. Indeed, when you click on Edit for a billable expense that is already invoiced, the dropdown box that appears says Uninvoiced. But the purpose of that box is to let you change status (especially for write-offs) and add a date. Nothing should happen until you click Next. Yet when you go back to the main list, the status has changed to Uninvoiced, and there doesn’t seem to be a way to correct that.

Continuing my experiment, I tried writing off a billable expense that had already been invoiced. The amount remained in Accounts receivable and nothing appeared in Billable expenses - unrecoverable.

The only way I could fix this was to delete all transactions related to the billable expense, the sales invoice, and the payment receipts for the portion of the invoice not related to billable expenses. Then I recreated everything from scratch.

There definitely seems to be a bug here.

Can you check in the latest version (15.4.53) whether this bug has been fixed?

Also, I’ve noticed the naming of the income account Billable expenses - markup is a bit unfortunate because this account is used on sales invoices in the context which doesn’t imply markup. This is something I will fix in the next version.

[quote=“lubos, post:4, topic:3543, full:true”]
Can you check in the latest version (15.4.53) whether this bug has been fixed?[/quote]

Looks fixed to me. (It says ‘Invoiced’, but I’m not game to hit the ‘Update’ button and test it. I’ll let braver souls like Tut mess with that. :smile: )

Ah… because it’s revenue in the context of the sales invoice, but only profit in the context of the income statement? That provides a naming dilemma hey.

Yes, all seems perfect now. I experimented with an Invoiced expense, clicking on Edit and Update (without making any change). It came back as Invoiced, just as one would expect. I next wrote off an Uninvoiced expense. Today’s date filled automatically, something that didn’t happen before. Then I converted it back to Uninvoiced. And the amount transferred correctly from/to Accounts receivable, Billable expenses - unrecoverable, and Billable expenses going in both directions. Lastly, I converted an Invoiced expense to Uninvoiced. It showed in the list as Uninvoiced, and the amount appeared in Billable expenses - markup. I’ll have to think about that some more, but I think it’s probably correct, because it has to show in income due to the fact that it is on a sales invoice, but since the expense itself is listed as Uninvoiced, the program seems to interpret the difference as a markup. When I reverted to Invoiced, everything went back to normal.

Try it out, @Kal. You can be brave now that I took the risk. (I knew how to unwind it all from having done it early this morning.) :wink:

Let me remind you of my original suggestions for tab and subsidiary account names, which might make more sense as we consider the experience gained recently. I’ve adapted some of my supporting comments to incorporate present terminology:

Billable Time tab

  • Billable time (originally Work in progress; this name distinguishes the
    account from inventory work in progress; the billable adjective makes it clear this time has not yet been billed)
  • Income from billed time (formerly Fees from work in progress and recently Billable time - invoiced; it became income by virtue of being invoiced, so the invoiced modifier seems unnecessary; mentioning billed time makes it clear the invoice has already been issued)
  • Billable time movement (formerly Work in progress - movement; this name is the least satisfying to me, as nothing accumulates here, but maybe the movement description is appropriate, since time charges seem to flow through on their way to eventual homes)

Billable Expenses tab

  • Billable expenses (formerly Disbursements recoverable)
  • Income from billed expenses (formerly Disbursements income, currently Billable expenses - markup; while markups do end up here, other unusual situations could result in income, too, possibly on a temporary basis; the billed modifier makes clear that the expenses have been invoiced)
  • Uncollectable expenses (originally Unrecoverable disbursements and now Billable expenses - unrecoverable; uncollectable emphasizes that expenses were written off because of customer refusal, whereas unrecoverable suggests some characteristic of the expenses made them so and might be interpreted as non-deductible; you also would need to decide on spelling–uncollectable being chiefly British, uncollectible being apparently more common)

Looks good for me now, too. I agree about the Billable Expenses - markup account - it does look confusing on an invoice.

Interesting stuff there Tut.

I’m replying to this thread as I’m having very similar issues to those mentioned above.

  1. I wish to bill my client for 16 days of billable time plus two billable expenses. One was a payment and one was an expense claim by an employee
  2. I made the entries and allocated them to the client
  3. I go to create the invoice at month end by clicking customers, selecting the “uninvoiced” amount for the applicable client.
  4. Only the billable time is showing. The billable expenses aren’t…strange
  5. I go to ‘billable expenses’ and see both expenses sitting showing with an ‘invoiced’ status
  6. I edit one and see that it is showing as being invoiced to the correct client against the previous months invoice. Strange.
  7. I change the status to ‘uninvoiced’ and hit update…it then displays the list of billable expenses. Not only has the expense in question been changed to ‘uninvoiced’ one of the previous months one has also. The second billable expense still shows as ‘invoiced’
  8. When i change the status of the second of the current months expenses, again it changes the status of one of the previous months.
  9. Trying to change either of the previous months back to ‘invoiced’ changes the status of the current months expenses.

This is my 22nd invoice for this client all done with Manager. I’ve checked and double checked all my dates and the data in the relevant expenses.

Why are they showing as ‘invoiced’ against the previous months invoice upon creation? This never used to happen.
Why am i seeing this strange behaviour when i try to change the invoiced status of the individual expenses?

I recently changed to what i think is the latest desktop version 19.6.74

Any help would be much appreciated.

I should have mentioned that despite showing as invoiced, the correct amount is showing in the “billable expenses” row on the Summary page.

I.e. the summary page shows outstanding billable expenses yet the billable expenses page shows all expenses as having been invoiced.

You are roughly 35 version behind. But there have not been any changes in billable time and expenses, so that won’t matter.

It’s impossible to diagnose your problem without seeing every transaction involved. These modules are fairly complex. Somewhere, though, I think you invoiced the two billable expenses without realizing it. There is no way they could have been invoiced spontaneously.

Since this is just one customer and 18 entries, you might want to try deleting them all and re-entering. Be sure to jot down the particulars first, including reference numbers.

I also wonder about your workflow, which you did not exactly explain. I can tell you that I use both billable expenses and billable time routinely, but I have never had to change an entry’s status. I just create the invoice from the uninvoiced figure in the Customers tab.

Thankyou. Firstly, I had no idea my build was so out of date - I’ll update.

I have never had need to alter the status of an expense previously. For the previous 21 invoices I have done exactly as you describe. Only when the 2 expenses were not showing under the uninvoiced “customer” amount did I investigate further and find that they were both showing as status “invoiced” against the previous month’s invoice.

I updated to the latest version (i had no idea there were such frequent updates!). The issue still arose. I deleted the billable expenses in question and re-entered and I had no issue.

The only thing i did differently (and i should have realised this earlier) was that given these are recurring expenses billable to the same client, i had cloned the previous months expenses and changed the necessary date, reference etc… I’m guessing there is something going on behind the scenes where, when u clone a billable expense which has already been invoiced it in some way links the cloned expense to that invoice irrespective of whether you alter the fields.
I’m not sure whether this is a bug or if there’s a good reason why previously invoiced billable expenses should not be cloned in this way.

In future, ill just create the billable expenses from fresh. Its got me thinking that Ive perhaps been using the ‘clone’ feature incorrectly for a while now for payments as well as expenses. Time to go back to the guide…

Ahhhh……that is exactly the issue. When you clone a transaction, you clone everything about it except an automatic reference (if an automatic reference is set as the form default). You literally get an identical twin.

I cannot think of any problems you would encounter off the top of my head. Payments are more self-contained than billable expenses, which interact with several control accounts simultaneously in multiple tabs. Payments interact only with the source bank or cash account that is credited and the account being debited. Personally, I clone (then edit) almost every payment I make.

I’m glad to have bottomed this one out.

It might be worth adding a “caution” note to the billable expenses guide warning of the risks of cloning billable expenses which have already been invoiced.

Thanks again!

I am going to ask @lubos to look at this. It isn’t really a bug, but I’m not sure the program should operate this way.

I think this bug is also related to Billable Expense Misbaviour and Incorrect link up on billable expenses - #10 by Aart_van_Oploo.

Any update on this @lubos as in when it is going to be FIXED, please?

Fixed in the latest version (19.11.91)

Thanks @lubos the problem isn’t occurring anymore. :+1: