Upgrade loses customers

I upgraded Manager DE on my Mac but found I lost several customer entries, 18 in my case - that could have been 3 months of use. I knew this had occurred as when I did a backup prior to upgrading I was looking at how to search customer addresses (which isn’t possible yet), I noted how many customers I had.

Having done a backup I could easily restore but I’m keen to know why did it not keep the current state! I think this must be a bug, perhaps related to the name of the company? I had changed how it was listed in Manager some months ago but probably after a previous upgrade. Slightly worried I may have lost something in the past.

Thanks,

Stuart

To my knowledge, this has never been reported by anyone else. Exactly how did you perform your update? Did you follow the procedures in this guide exactly? I have done hundreds of updates on a Mac and never lost a single bit of data.

Hi, yes I did follow that guide - I replaced the existing Manager as I do with all my Mac applications.

The reason I mentioned it was that I don’t recall this happening in the past, however it was 100% obvious this time. The only suggestion I can make is that the name of the company had been revised, so not knowing how the database works I thought it might be something with that.

Regards, Stuart

Then you may not have followed the Guide exactly. The Guide tells you not to delete or uninstall anything when updating. Depending on the installer script, some Mac installations require deletion of the old version. Manager updates are fairly unique in that they follow the exact same process as initial installation, ignoring the fact that an older version is already present in the Applications folder.

Also, you did not mention how old your previous version was. There was an update earlier this year that changed the database structure and contents of the application data folder. In a few cases, depending on a user’s history of renaming and/or moving data files, it was necessary to use the Add Business button to restore a business to the Businesses page. The correct data was always there, but an index file needed to be updated. Very few people were affected by this. Most avoided it by having straddled a short-lived change to the data structure or by never having done the things that triggered the problem.

So I did not delete or uninstall anything. My prior version was 17.4.xx not sure exactly the last digits.

this problem was noted even in Windows OS after the updates that allowed opening business data file directly without importing and the consecutive updates that fixed few bugs related to the same.

when the actual data file was renamed with a user identifiable name, the bug fixed version did not recognize the business data file. the file had to be imported to the program which in-turn again created a copy of the business file with the usual numeric filename. this was not a big issue as the application data folder was untouched when performing the update. so the user just needed to import the business file from the application data folder.

the situation would have caused trouble if the user had reinstalled Manager to perform an update without creating a backup.

Actually, a backup was not necessary. You just had to navigate to wherever you had stored your data file. That might have required a little detective work. But the data was always there.

this is true when you are using the default OS uninstallers. if a user is using any third party uninstallers chances are that the associated folders and files of a program are deleted when uninstalled.

That is one reason you should not uninstall Manager when updating.

@scrump Can you navigate to your Application Data folder and show us what is in there?

http://www.manager.io/guides/8394

@ShaneAU

Hope that’s what you wanted.

Yes, this demonstrates that the application data folder was never deleted - which is good. There seems to be some speculation above that it might have been deleted.

The file named CRUMPSTAR.manager being listed as having been modified 6 days ago is interesting.

To my knowledge (based on reading the forums) it has been a long time since Manager saved the manager files with readable names like that:

  1. Manager originally named files in the long format (e.g. ‘6c590…’)
  2. From 17.4.0, Manager used a human-readable name instead (e.g. ‘CRUMP…’)
  3. From 17.5.8, Manager began naming files in the long format again (e.g. ‘6c590…’)

This means you must have been using a version that named files in the human-readable format.

My guess is that something like this happened:

  1. Some time ago, you were using Manager for your business. It created a file (possibly the one starting with ‘238…’ that was last modified 16th March) to save your data.
  2. You upgraded to version 17.4.xx and this started using a new file named CRUMPSTAR.manager instead. You wouldn’t have noticed any difference in the program.
  3. You upgraded to 17.10.xx earlier this week, which uses the long naming format. Suddenly, you might have been reading a very old file (from before your 17.4.xx upgrade!). That would explain any other data loss, as well.
  4. The fix is to re-import your backup, as mentioned by others above.

If you hadn’t made a backup, I suspect you still would not have lost data, because everything is probably saved in another file (e.g. CRUMPSTAR.manager) and would just need to be imported.

More experienced Manager users can comment on whether my speculation is plausible. It seems to match up with the release history.

TL:DR; There is a very likely explanation for the loss of customers (and other data), and any data loss is only temporary - Manager is very good at backing up, and there is usually always a way to restore data if you are following the guides.

Contrary to @ShaneAU’s speculation, the file 238097... is not a data file. That is an audit trail file. You actually cannot make use of it in the desktop edition because multiple users are not allowed. But Manager still creates it. So ignore that one for now.

The CRUMPSTAR.manager file is one you created at some point. Although Manager allowed plain language file names in versions from 17.4.0 to 17.5.8, it never created them on its own. You most likely either saved the business somewhere outside the application data folder with this name and then moved it back into the application data folder or imported a backup and deleted the date that was part of the file name in a renaming process.

You have made entries to three separate business files on October 19 or later: 6c590..., 7ad47..., and CRUMPSTAR.manager. Do you actually have multiple businesses? Have you been opening these files in your search for the lost entries? (One aspect of the update you recently installed is the ability to open files directly rather than through the Businesses page. But when you do that, you are opening a separate business and changes in one file will not be duplicated in another, even if their businesses have the same name internally.)

The good news is that the update did not lose your data. I have been through literally hundreds of Mac updates and never lost a transaction. The bad news is that you may have scattered your data through multiple versions of your business by unknowingly having opened different versions of it. If that is the case, there is no way to merge the data back into a single file. You will have to pick the best version of your business and re-enter missing data into it.

So for now, STOP ENTERING NEW TRANSACTIONS. That will only make eventual recovery more tedious.

The final piece of bad news is that no one can sort this out for you. You will need to go on the data hunt on your own. Read this Guide carefully: Manage application data folder contents | Manager. Follow its procedures to isolate and identify the best data file(s) for your business(es). You will need to go back and forth into the application data folder to see what changes. You’ll need to import and remove businesses. Eventually, you should be able to track down which business is the most current. You may also need to directly open any files you have stored elsewhere. (There have been two periods when that was feasible, the latest being right now.) Such files might have plain language names, alphanumeric names, or plain language with date names.

At that point, you will have two choices:

  • Import the best version by using the Add Business button in the program and navigating to that file, wherever it is. At that point, Manager will add it to the application data folder (with a new alphanumeric name, if necessary).
  • Continue to use the business outside the application data folder. Understand, if you choose this route, that the business file you want will not be available by clicking on a business with that name on the Businesses page. In fact, to avoid future problems, you should Remove businesses with that name from the Businesses page and possibly (in their inert version) from the application data folder.

FINAL WARNING: Be sure not to delete any files until you are satisfied the problem is completely sorted out. As stated in the Guide, move them to a safe, temporary location until you are convinced the problem is resolved. You can always re-import them. Once deleted, however, they are gone forever.

1 Like

Correction, yes Manager did create those readable file names on its own.

When you downloaded between 17.4.0 and 17.5.8 for the “first” time, Manager automatically converted the alpha/numeric named files into “new” readable named files by taking the business name that was listed on the home / index page when you opened Manager. No user input was required to create these readable named files.

So fb998af04a72485a985dd843b4959c8e.manager created zanadu.manager

So for users on a version between 17.4.0 and 17.5.8 they had within their Application Data duplicate files for the one business (alpha/numeric + readable) and Manager always selected the readable named file while you were on those versions.

Application Data Folder
fb998af04a72485a985dd843b4959c8e.manager
zanadu.manager

However the above detailed issue arises when those readable named file users updated to a version 17.5.8 + (where Manager had reverted back to using alpha/numeric named files) if they hadn’t deleted those previous (redundant) alpha/numeric named files because this time round when Manger was doing the “conversion” it said, “opps - that file already exists so no need to create” which meant the poor user on opening Manager was in fact unwittingly opening an outdated file - hence the alarm bells of missing data.

This was resolved by “Add Business” + “Import Business” and selecting the readable named file from Application Data and you were back in business with your latest data.

For users who had deleted their previous (redundant) alpha/numeric named files - life went on seamlessly - good housekeeping averting a trip up.

Yes, I was reminded of that going back through ancient forum postings, but didn’t have time yet to edit my post. Thanks for clearing this up and providing detailed information.

@scrump, my apologies to you for the miscue on the CRUMPSTAR.manager file. All my comments about techniques for investigating which file is the latest remain valid, as does my strong belief you have not lost any data. Just proceed carefully and don’t hesitate to move files out of the application data folder to the temporary storage location.