UK Vat Return has lost MTD export option

I have just recently updated Manager to the latest version from around January. As a result of the new Report Transformation update, I have lost the MTD export option that used to be present.

Is this something that the developer needs to restore or do I need to do something myself. At present, I cannot file my VAT return, unless I revert back to an older Manager version.

I have the same problem with UK VAT return.

Should I wait for a fix or is this something I have to set up for myself now?

AlanB

I don’t know. We will have to wait for @Tut or @lubos to advise as they are the only ones likely to know. I am not even sure if Tut would know as he doesn’t use the MTD as that UK only.

You are correct, @dalacor. I have no experience with or knowledge about MTD in the UK. I know only that, if there were instructions, they should be visible when viewing the report and editable under Settings by editing the report transformation itself. As you can see, however, there is nothing in either place.

I don’t know how you were submitting things previously, so I don’t know whether the current worksheet is suitable for the same purpose. @lubos has said, however, that the emphasis will be on providing information necessary for submissions rather than on duplicating official forms or tapping into external processes. If I were you, and facing a filing deadline, I would take the information and find some way to submit it without relying on Manager.

I will have to wait until @lubos can advise. I fully understand the concept of the new report transformations. The idea is to enable users to create the boxes and texts as necessary for their country. That is not a problem as that is already correct in the latest version of Manager.

What is different about the UK is that there was a specifically designed export option to export the Vat return to a csv file in the exact format required by Tax Optimiser which is the MTD solution that Lubos recommends for filing vat returns. I don’t believe that the report transformation covers this aspect.

There is no urgent deadline as I only have to file by the end of this month. I cannot however submit the return outside of Manager as it’s needs to be exported in the exact format (which I don’t have) that the MTD solution requires.

Not to worry, I will wait till the developer can advise what is the correct steps to take.

The Australian “SIngle touch payroll worksheet” has an export button with the no code country specific report.

An “Export” box is checked.
I’m not sure exactly how the development environment chooses what to include in the CVS file and what is shown only in the human readable report. Reverse engineering would probably provide some clarification but I have not done that yet.

Fixed in the latest version (21.6.85)

There is now Export button with instructions.

Export file schema is different though. The fields in Tax Optimizer need to set up this way.

I have emailed them to update default schema for Manager.io as per the screenshot so you don’t have to do it manually.

Thank you. Could you let us know when tax optimiser have updated the schema for Manager. I am not sure what is different though as the fields look pretty much what it always used to look like.

I have updated Manager to the latest version. Box 2 seems to have disappeared as a result of that update.

This topic shows the picture - VAT Calculation Sheet - Report Transformation - #7 by mpb

Just so that you are aware, Manager is now running 21.7.1 so I should in theory be seeing the option to put in my product key. Not worried about it.

Can this be added to bugs, so it can get fixed. Thanks.

This is not a bug.

Also, you can fix the template on their website yourself. Just make sure your VAT Settings shows B1-B9 values as per the screenshot.

I didn’t realise that I just needed to add the Tax on Sales - 5% on imports and Tax on Sales - 20% on imports fields. I assumed the box itself was missing. I have done that. I also added the on imports to boxes 3,4 and 5 as they were missing them. I don’t do anything with the EU, but I might as well have the form correct.

I am a bit confused about boxes 6,7,8 and 9 though. For example boxes 8 and 9 only have Total Sales - Vat 0% EU and Total purchases - Vat 0% EU. Should I not have 5% and 20% on imports in those respective boxes as well? Again, as I don’t do any transactions with the EU, so won’t affect me in theory, but not sure why only Vat 0%.

For boxes 6, I have Net Sales of 5% and 20%, but also Total Sales of 0% and Total Sales Vat Exempt? I also have Total Sales Vat 0% EU, which I don’t think should be there (even though it’s 0%).

I think I will have to get my accountant to check the form. But at least I can file the return as I have box 2 back. Thank you.

Can I take this opportunity to add something.
As far as the way that import and export transactions between the EU and the UK are concerned, things changed on Jan 1 2021. Personally, I actually find that it makes life easier for me as it is all now treated along with the normal deep-sea/non-EU transactions.

I paste below a copy of the advice which I have received verbatim:-

Changes to VAT Reporting from 1st January 2021

Please note the following changes to UK VAT Reporting from 1st January 2021.

These changes apply to UK businesses that trade with the EU.

Exports to the EU

From 1st January 2021 exports of goods to the EU are zero-rated (0%) for VAT. They are reported as normal in Box 6, but are no longer reported in Box 8, unless the sale is through the Northern Ireland protocol.

Imports from the EU

From 1st January 2021 imports of goods from the EU are zero-rated (0%) for VAT by your supplier. They are reported as normal in Box 7, but are no longer reported in Box 9, unless the import is through the Northern Ireland protocol.

VAT will be added to your invoice by border control, and this is usually handled by your courier or agent.

In order to reclaim the VAT charged, you must register for an EORI number, and provide this to your courier / supplier. You will receive a C79 form from HMRC and must keep this as evidence of VAT paid.

In order to reclaim VAT charged on your imports, include the VAT you have been charged on imports in Box 4. You must also include the value, excluding VAT, of the imports in Box 7.

Postponed VAT Accounting

Postponed VAT Accounting (PVA) allows you to account for, and reclaim, VAT on imported items yourself, rather than through a third party such as a courier.

In order to use PVA, you must:

  • Inform your supplier you are VAT registered, and wish to use Postponed VAT Accounting*
  • Import business goods to the UK valued at more than £135 (exclusive of VAT)*
  • Elect to use PVA on the customs declaration*
  • Use your own VAT registration and EORI numbers on the customs declaration*

If you have used PVA to account for VAT on imports, you can account for this as in your VAT Return by entering adjustments in your accounting software or spreadsheet as follows:

  • Box 1: Include the VAT due on imports*
  • Box 4: Include the same value as for Box 1 - so you are reclaiming the VAT due.*

These figures will be available for up to 6 months from the monthly HMRC PVA report, available at: Get your postponed import VAT statement - GOV.UK

Northern Ireland trade with the EU

If you exchange goods between Northern Ireland and the EU, you must file adjustments to account for the VAT as follows:

  • Box 2: Enter an adjustment for the VAT due on acquisitions of goods made in Northern Ireland from the EU*
  • Box 4: Enter the same adjustment as for Box 2 - so you are reclaiming the VAT due in Box 2*
  • Box 8: Enter the value of dispatches of goods and costs, excluding VAT, from Northern Ireland to the EU*
  • Box 9: Enter the value of acquisitions of goods and costs, excluding VAT, from the EU to Northern Ireland*

That is interesting to note. That probably explains why I am not seeing 5% and 20% on import in the boxes 8 and 9. Like I said, it doesn’t affect me as I don’t trade with the EU.

But then if you are saying imports from the EU are now zero rated. Does this not mean that boxes 2 and 3 should only show Tax on sales - Vat 0% on imports for the EU aspect and in box 4, I should be putting in Tax on Purchase - Vat 0% and same again with Tax liability in box 5?

Is there anywhere that needs to be 5% or 20% on imports in any of the boxes?

Putting aside the EU import question, the main one that I don’t understand is boxes 6 and 7, where you have net sales 20% and 5%, but you also have total sales at 0%. And the same for purchases in box 7.

My understanding of this zero rated VAT is that it is a temporary thing? Or am I muddling that up with import duty?

Any chance you could make a new report transformation “VAT Calculation Worksheet Jan 2021” incorporating these changes and upload it to the forum. That way other users could test it and ensure compliance with all use cases.

Unfortunately to do this you would have to manually copy the content of the prior report transformation as cloning has been disabled.

If the new report transformation produces different results, retaining both would be sensible as that enables users to justify prior year reporting.

If VAT Return for UK needs to be improved, there is Github project where changes can be submitted.

See: GitHub - Manager-io/Localizations.json

If anybody needs assistance with the workflow how to submit the improvement, just reach out.

@xero50 is this something that you can do? Otherwise I will have to contact my accountant and get him to review each box as I am not sure what is correct, for example the net sales and total sales in box 6.

I am not sure if I am missing a point here or not - if so, I stand ready to be corrected and put straight.
That said, (if I understand things correctly) there is nothing wrong with the present VAT Calculation Worksheet Report Transformation as it presently stands.
What changed back in January 2021 was the way that book-keeping transactions are recorded in the ledgers - ie, (assuming no dealings with Northern Ireland) we no longer use any of the old EU VAT codes and we no longer need to separately report on them either.

As chance would have it on a day to day basis, the new everyday book-keeping process was already familiar to me, as it is identical to the way that I have historically recorded my deep-sea (ie non EU) ledger transactions.
The resulting message in principle being, a transaction is now either ‘domestic UK’ or it is not, and there is not any middle ground or grey areas to have to consider.

The problem with the present Vat Calculation Worksheet is that you first have to add box 2. See this post - VAT Calculation Sheet - Report Transformation So if this part of the form is wrong, then what else on the form may be wrong?

I have done that, but I am not sure if I input the correct tax codes into the second box. Hence the need for either my accountant or somebody more familiar than myself with accounting checks this box.

Then the second problem is that I don’t know if the other fields are correct as far as EU reporting is concerned, because the UK Vat form has been updated as a result of the changes to the Report Transformation in Manager. The form was never updated because of Brexit itself, unless someone tells me otherwise! So I am trying to check that all the boxes have the correct information re EU as per Brexit requirements. You say the rules have changed re Brexit. My question, has the VAT form been updated to reflect this?

Last, I don’t understand why I have net sales but also total sales in box 6? And same for purchases in box 7. It doesn’t look right.

Have you updated to the latest version of Manager?

For the purposes of discussion I will disregard the provisions for Northern Ireland and deferments etc.
My version of Manager in use now is v21.7.17
I acknowledge and agree with your comment about the Box 2 field. That said it should only now ever have a ‘0’ zero value in it as it is no longer a requirement to have to report VAT due on EU acquisitions.

As for the remainder:-

As far as I am aware there have been no changes imposed by HMRC as far as the layout or make-up of the VAT return form is concerned, and we just continue to use the same form.

As far as I am aware Manager’s report transformation report did not need to be changed because of Brexit.

I think therefore that it is possible that we are talking at cross-purposes. Therefore for the avoidance of doubt I will try and explain further.

Jan 2021 saw Brexit implemented. For practical purposes as far as book-keeping and VAT reporting is concerned that meant:-

If you are a business dealing exclusively within the UK then nothing changed.

If you are a business dealing with EU based suppliers and/or customers, you no longer had to record or report VAT in the way that you were previously doing before Jan 2021, instead just treating things in exactly the same way as one would have treated ‘deep-sea’ transactions.

Can I respectfully suggest that if you wish to check on the make-up of the totals in the VAT return report transformation, then Manager’s Tax Transaction Report is very useful to look at.

My boxes 6 and 7 are reporting correct values for both current and historical periods.