That is big problem with Manager and that doesn’t change with the time. Introducing new features and scrapping previous ones are constant there - Payroll reports, Reconciliation tabs, Copy to Clipboard and few others. Few years ago I’ve tried to use it with my main clients, but that was to risky to deal with such changes constantly. I left only one charity on Manager and even there I encounter problems. I even stopped to update the program because I’ve become paranoid of these regressive changes (I had to upgrade this time because of ongoing audit - the’ve installed most recent version and I had to have compatible).
Maybe it is time to rethink development curve? Maybe it is worth to introduce conservative (aka long term like in linux) development branch with stable range of functions and major changes to introduce only once in a while (like once a year) and in more predictable manner? Just as an idea to think of
@Solnce I made a backup of my files and then uninstalled Manager (20.9.53) using CCleaner.
I then installed version 20.8.96 and imported the backup.
This gave me back the Export button.
Probably not ideal to roll that far back, but it was what I needed and I don’t have any hassles yet with it.
There is a philosophical issue running through this topic, separate from several false claims that have been made about changes that did not occur. That issue is whether the developer has any obligation to provide means for data or displays from Manager to be copied, exported, pirated, or in any way acquired for use in other applications. My belief is that he does not.
Having decided to make data and displays available, however, the developer selected two flexible formats. These two formats and functions have never changed, although the label on a button initiating one of them recently did to provide more uniformity throughout the program. The Copy to clipboard button currently copies:
Lists in TSV format
Reports in HTML
(Previously, the button that copied lists was labeled Export, but functionality and output were identical to current implementation.)
What did change was that the Export button for reports, which copied in TSV format, was removed. But the data is still available in a format most, if not all, spreadsheet applications on the market will accept, as long as you know how to use them. I suggest that, having made the data available in a very common and highly usable format, the developer has no further responsibility. It is up to the individual user to decide what to do with the data outside the program.
This is a distinctly different issue from the one some forum members have raised recently about built-in reports changing due to corrections in the application. Holding the developer accountable for internal processing and display of unchanging data is one thing. Users’ may have valid concerns when reports they relied on for government filings later show different numbers. Assigning blame to the developer for what you do with data you strip from the program is something else. He has not deprived anyone of access to their data. Nor has he eliminated the ability to extract it in useful formats. The fact that someone wants to plug the data into a specific outside application in a certain way really should not be his concern.
@lubos you make the right assumption. One would print a pre-formatted report but one would like to export and use the data. By the way I disagree with @Tut that “…That issue is whether the developer has any obligation to provide means for data or displays from Manager to be copied, exported, pirated, or in any way acquired for use in other applications. My belief is that he does not…” There is a difference with the application code and files and with user-data. It would be extremely worrying if Manager.io would also be the owner of the data we enter and can refuse us access to it in one form or the other. That would mean for example that Microsoft would own all data, text, etc or Adobe all videos, images, etc. that were created by their users. In fact that is automatically copyright of that user not the company that provides the platform. If anything these companies make it very clear in their license agreements as they do not want to get involved in any letigation related to user content. Imagine one of the Manager.io users would hve entered fraudulent data. They can then extend the claim to Manager.io being the “owner” of all that. I hope @lubos that you clarify the Manager.io position on this asap. Thank you.
Manager is far freer with data export than other commercial products. Many methods are available to extract any data the users wants. Doing so requires some skill which is the users responsibility to acquire if an individual does not have it currently.
@eko, I said nothing about ownership of your data. Your data is never in the program anyway. It is stored in a separate business data file you own, at whatever storage location you have designated by your choice of edition and designation of application data path.
My comment was exclusively directed towards the developer’s obligation to make data available in formats for use in other applications. There is a big difference between a software developer owning your data and making a decision not to support its use in another developer’s program.
I understand but prefer not to generalize and in some of these popular commercial application cases there are excellent 3rd Party tools that are even more powerful exporting to Excell, CSV and other formats. For non commercial such as Wave, full exports are easy too and free. I do not think the issue here is about if it does, but that it did make exports available through an export button it removed and clarification provided in this thread including inconvenience this has caused the originator of the thread. It raises more fundamental questions of removing / adding functionality that affects how people were using the application without sufficient warning that it would affect the way they use the application. Even if the developer has the right to do whatever the developer wants to do in relation to making user data available as for example mentioned by @Tut it would be a courtesy at least to inform the affected about the consequences of such changes and provide confidence in the direction taken however inconvenient it may be for some. As the developer rightly needs convincing to make any changes, likewise it would be beneficial if the developer convinces the users prior to installation about the needs and benefits of the changes and the possible consequences on how the application is used by the users, ideally prior to implementation in kind of short- medium- and long-term roadmaps. I do agree that Manager.io in the way it is setup and documented is the result of experience and thorough thinking about accounting principles by a single developer and thus ensures code consistency offering a great resource in every aspect. Responsiveness on this forum by the developer and @Tut is excellent and would benefit us even more if somewhat less authoritative and defensive and more collegiate and constructive. We are all in this together and the trust that the developer gets by having users operating their business accounts with Manager.io is evidence of the good work and trust in the developer.
Select all and copy also pretty much works, @lubos
if you happen to look into it please check the compatibility for Google sheets as well, as it gives out in html source code.
You should update your software, @Premm. The program no longer copies reports in HTML formal. It now copies only in TSV format. See the Guide: Copy lists and reports | Manager.
