Problems with Expense Claims

[Tut]

I have two problems with Expense Claims.

1. I have entered only one Expense Claim Payer (myself). When I create a new expense claim, the drop-down box shows my name twice. If I select the top one, everything works correctly. If I select the bottom one, the claim amount goes to Suspense. This behavior is duplicated when any expense claim is edited. In other words, I can make any claim amount appear or disappear in Suspense by switching between the duplicate payer names. Why does my name appear twice? And why does the claim go to Suspense if I choose the wrong one? How would I know which is correct?

2. If I open an expense claim to edit it, the date always shows the first day of the relevant month rather than the actual date of the claim. However, the list of expense claims shows all the correct dates. If I edit the date and update, the problem remains.

I am using v14.9.2. Thanks for your help.

[Tut]

Further experimentation with the Expense Claim problem described in my earlier post revealed more information:

I created a dummy Expense Claim Payer and changed all claims to that payer. Everything worked correctly, and the dummy payer name appeared only once in the drop-down list. I then deleted myself as a payer. At that point, one of my two names disappeared from the payer drop-down list, but one remained. If I assign the expense claim to that name, the amount goes to Suspense. So I have a non-existent payer showing up in the drop-down list. Somehow, Manager seems to have preserved a payer it doesn’t show, but doesn’t know what to do with that payer.

I hope this extra bit of behavioral description helps with troubleshooting.

[lubos]

@Tut

If I open an expense claim to edit it, the date always shows the first day of the relevant month rather than the actual date of the claim. However, the list of expense claims shows all the correct dates. If I edit the date and update, the problem remains.

I’m not able to reproduce the issue with the date you’re experiencing. What happens when you edit other records such as invoices, receipts, payments, journal entries etc. same problem?

@Tut

I have entered only one Expense Claim Payer (myself). When I create a new expense claim, the drop-down box shows my name twice. If I select the top one, everything works correctly. If I select the bottom one, the claim amount goes to Suspense. This behavior is duplicated when any expense claim is edited. In other words, I can make any claim amount appear or disappear in Suspense by switching between the duplicate payer names. Why does my name appear twice? And why does the claim go to Suspense if I choose the wrong one? How would I know which is correct?

Go to Settings, then Capital Accounts. I think this is where the second payer is coming from. Members created in capital accounts can also be expense claim payers.

Check the latest version (14.9.5), the amount shouldn’t appear in suspense account anymore if you select the other payer.

[Tut]

Lubos, the problem is completely different than I thought. The issue is not specific to the Expense Claims module. It happens everywhere. But it turns out to only occur when the date is the 31st of the month. (By chance, I noticed the problem only with month-end entries, and I didn’t have any for any 30-day months. Only when I created some dummy transactions to investigate the problem did I realize what was happening.)

If the month has 30 days and the last day is selected, all works perfectly. But if any transaction–invoice, expense claim, receipt of money, etc.–is dated the 31st, it reverts to the 1st when the record is opened for editing. That will no doubt send you down a different path to find the bug.

I installed v14.9.5 and the Suspense problem has been corrected. I did not realize capital account names would also appear as expense claim payers. I suppose there is no reason to create any expense claim payers if only capital account owners submit claims, right?

[ghalyan_sandeep]

How to pay the expense claims as they are always showing in my liabilities and I could not find a way to pay them.

[Tut]

Expense Claims module has been evolving, but you still might benefit from reading some prior posts. Search this Forum using the phrase “expense claims.”

Basically, though, you must remember that the purpose of the module is to record expenses paid by someone (either owner or employee) rather than from a company bank or cash account. If the owner pays, typically there will never be a reimbursement. In fact, if you choose the owner’s capital account as the payer, that account is automatically adjusted to show the owner has effectively contributed more capital to the business.

You can also spend money from a cash account or use a journal entry to reimburse an employee.

[lubos]

@Tut

The issue is not specific to the Expense Claims module. It happens everywhere. But it turns out to only occur when the date is the 31st of the month.

I fixed this issue in the latest version (14.9.7).

@Tut

I did not realize capital account names would also appear as expense claim payers. I suppose there is no reason to create any expense claim payers if only capital account owners submit claims, right?

That’s correct.

[lubos]

@ghalyan_sandeep

How to pay the expense claims as they are always showing in my liabilities and I could not find a way to pay them.

Have a look at http://www.manager.io/guides/expense-claims/reimbursing-expense-claims/

[Tut]

Lubos: Thanks a million for the quick action. Manager is now just about perfect for my small services business. Just one question: are you still planning a billable materials module to go with billable time? If so, do you have a schedule? Thanks again.

[heiko]

I had the problem that I created expense claim payers and also the members in capital accounts. When claiming an expense the names showed up twice. I now went and changed all transactions to the capital accounts and deleted the Expens claim payers. However, when trying to re-imburse the claims, the members are not selectable as shown in the expens claim:

Visible when creating an expense claim:

However not selectable when trying to reimburse:

Please advise.

[Tut]

Heiko, I addressed your question in another topic thread. If you read the article here, you may find what you need. You might gain additional insight by reading the thread that preceded that posting. Good luck. (Just click on the title below to see the full thread.)

Using expense claims module for travel reimbursement

Having now used the Expense Claims module quite a bit and done some experimenting, I believe I can explain some of what you are seeing. You are correct that expense payers are not linked in any way to employees. However, they may be linked indirectly to owners, depending on your form of organization and chart of accounts. First of all, understand that Expense Claims are used to record payment of company expenses with non-company funds. Examples are travel expenses that will eventually be reimb…

[scraft]

I am experiencing what I believe is the same issue initially reported here. I am using the Cloud/online version, so I presume I am always up to date? When I file an expense, I am given the following options:

As you can see, Steven Craft appears twice; to help me identify which one is which, I renamed the ‘Expense Claim Payers’ version to ‘Steven Craft - Expenses’. As long as I assign expenses to this user, everything work correctly. However, if I assign to the other Steven Craft, it doesn’t work (or show up in the Expense Claims Summary).

For what it is worth, I am a director of the company in question, and therefore have a capital account. I can live with the current situation, however it is error prone (easy to assign a claim to the wrong ‘Steven Craft’, receive no error, but the claim then ‘disappears’ in terms of it isn’t highlighted as being needed to be repaid).

Please advise.

[Tut]

Steven, based on what you have written, it does not seem to me that you have a problem with Manager. That is, it sounds like the program is working correctly. But you must decide how you will use it.

Expense Claims can be used in two situations, both involving payment of company expenses by personal funds, in other words, from a source that is not a company account:

1. An employee pays for something, perhaps a travel expense, and is later reimbursed by the company. The Expense Claims account must have designated expense claim payers so you can sort out who paid what when it is time for reimbursements. Each individual payer is a sub account.

2. An owner or member pays for something from non-company funds. In this situation, you have more choices. To account for these payments through Expense Claims you must also set owners/members up as payers. If you like, you can reimburse them just as you do other employees. Or, you can consider the expense payment as a contribution of capital and never reimburse it directly. The Expense Claims account for that payer would then be cleared by journal entry to owner’s equity, a drawing account (which is a temporary account), or straight to the appropriate capital account. Which approach you use depends on your type of organization and preferences of you, any other owners/members, and your accountant.

As you have seen, however, Manager allows all capital account owners to file expense claims, too. That is why you see two versions of your name after setting yourself up as an expense claim payer. Your experiment with renaming shows you which is the expense claim payer and which the capital account owner.

The difference between using one or the other is that if you select the capital account owner, Manager treats that expense as a direct contribution to the capital account. It does not disappear, but no longer is included as a liability in Expense Claims. Instead, you now have a larger investment in the company.

Personally, I believe which approach is easiest depends on your form of organization. If the company is a corporation, limited liability company, partnership, or anything else that necessitates having capital accounts, use the capital account owners’ sub accounts directly. Don’t bother to set the owners/members up as expense claim payers, because you are just creating more steps. Unless you feel compelled to reimburse owners/members via the same process as other employees, the expense is going to end up in capital regardless. It will ultimately be repaid via some type of draw, dividend, or eventual dissolution of the company.

If you are a sole proprietor, I believe the expense claims payer is easiest. You still don’t need to reimburse yourself, but can clear expense claims to owner’s equity by journal entry. This need not happen after every claim, perhaps monthly or annually. That allows you to avoid having capital accounts at all. Again, personal and accountant’s preferences will dictate what you do.