Inter Account Transfers and Divisions Issue

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Hi there! Using desktop version 24.11.17.1944 (I’ll update, as I see there’s a later version, and update if the issue is solved).

I make use of Divisions in my books. There should only be occasional interdivisional loans, which should then be corrected with a later transfer. I uploaded many transactions en masse and was sorting through to see which loans were missed, when I noticed an issue (I think – happy to be wrong).

Generally, it seems that the Division used is either the one input on the line or the one connected to the bank/cash account (etc.), which then prevents you from editing the Division on the line. This seems to work for Inter Account Transfers as well; however, I’ve noticed a few (34 payments and 38 receipts) that this has not worked out correctly. I’ve then attempted to Batch Update the Divisions to the correct ones, but I believe I am prevented from doing so when the system thinks it knows better.

Screenshots: the second Division listed in the screenshot (which is the result of the Batch Update) should be updated to the Division listed below it (from the Batch Update field entry – I can’t show a screenshot since I can only upload one image as a new user.)

division
division358×551 32 KB

Row 1 42b2387b-811d-4ef3-8530-9b5bfcfb8552
Row 2 7db79935-5a00-4c94-9a78-b5cf181366e8

Sometimes the error seems to stem from the Division matching the Paid From or Received In Cash/Bank account’s Division. Unfortunately, there are transfers between bank/cash accounts in the same Division which have the incorrect Division listed (which cannot be adjusted, as above).

I have attempted to adjust the Division associated with the particular Bank/Cash accounts, and that does not seem to work either. Not sure if this only works for new transactions, but if it is in fact programmatically generated (thus why I can’t update it via Batch Update), then I would expect it to have an effect.

I’ve noticed a few other issues with Divisions: (1) They don’t seem to be represented when starting balances are used, so I’ve used Journal Entries instead (a few frustrations there when they were not displaying in Balance Sheet reports in the correct Division); (2) I can’t seem to use them (or projects) in Bank Rules.

Thanks for any help or guidance!

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Please note from FAQ - Manager Forum

So if you encounter a problem with the desktop or server editions, update Manager , even if you recently did. (The cloud edition is always up to date.) You can check the latest version at https://www.manager.io/desktop/download/ .

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You can use Divisions, see screenshot:

Screenshot 2025-01-01 at 10.12.41
Screenshot 2025-01-01 at 10.12.411636×1538 120 KB

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Welcome to the forum @jmarksh

In addition to what @eko just pointed out.

If you plan to use advanced accounting features such as Divisions, Receipts and Payments should not be your source of origin for this allocation. Divisions should only build on top of a strong accounting foundation: there must be a Sales Invoice, Purchase Invoice or Payslip to capture this allocation before proceeding to payment.

If, for example, a bank account is assigned to Division:Administration then it makes more sense for payments originated from this account to be assigned to this particular division unless it pays a balance that’s already allocated to another division by an Invoice, Payslip, etc.

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Thanks @eko - updated and reverified: the issue persists. Though you are absolutely correct that Divisions (though not Projects) may be used with Bank Rules. I conflated the two by mistake.

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Thanks, @Ealfardan

If you plan to use advanced accounting features such as Divisions , Receipts and Payments should not be your source of origin for this allocation.

I’m not sure I understand: an Inter Account Transfer is the method for repaying an Interdivisional Loan created via the situations you describe, that is, when an account pays for a balance that’s already allocated to another Division by Invoice, Payslip, etc? Or are you suggesting that one Division should invoice the other first and the payment be handled as to the invoice instead? This seems to suggest that the Inter Account Transfer feature is not necessary (or just that it shouldn’t be used when Divisions are employed?).

Since April, Inter Account Transfers can be created by combining a separate payment and receipt, both individually imported via bank statements. This seems to be an issue with either the payment or receipt individually or the combining of them via that feature. Again, though, there are times that an incorrect Division is associated despite neither Bank/Cash Account being associated with that Division. I’m not sure why that would occur and I’m unable to fix it is the concern.

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In this case, you don’t really need to specify the Division since the account itself already belongs to a Division. That’s why the Division field is greyed out as you mentioned earlier in the OP.

Could you please elaborate why do you want the transactions within a Divisional Bank Account to be allocated to another Division?

Maybe the answer to this question could reveal the keys to understanding your issue

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For instance, if I make a transfer from Bank A (in Division A) to Bank B (in Division B), I need both sides to show a Division, otherwise it will not rectify an interdivisional loan (provided when Division B paid for an invoice designated to Division A).

If I make a transfer from Bank A (in Division A) to Bank C (in Division A), I need both sides to show the same correct Division otherwise (1) reports will show Inter Account Transfers in a column without a Division (they will not show up in the correct Division) or (2) they will create an Interdivisional Loan between Divisions if, for instance Division B is marked as the recipient instead of Division A.

As a brief update, I have discovered that I can add Divisions to Inter Account Transfers via Batch Update, but I cannot modify them once they are added. It may be the case, then, that I added them incorrectly myself. As such, this may not be an issue in the system for Inter Account Transfers (marking them incorrectly), but an issue with not allowing updates only.

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You don’t need to do anything.

Based on my tests, I was able to pay for the interdivisional loan simply by transfering funds from Division B bank account to Division A bank account.

I guess the only way you will be forced to manually select a Division is when Banks A & B are not assigned to a division. Is that the case?

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You are unable to manually select a Division, except by Batch Update. Which, you are right, I did not need to do.

Taking your lead and doing some tests (I was wondering why the Bank Accounts’ Divisions would not update on the transactions when I changed them on the Bank Accounts). I discovered this seems to be to my having declared a Division via Batch Update on the line – this was overwriting them.

I set the Divisions by Batch Update incorrectly, and these could not be changed, but they could be removed. Removing them now reverts to the original/non-overwritten functionality where the Division is determined by the Bank Account’s information rather than the information on the line.

I also determined that the issue was not the new Inter Account Transfer feature combining the payment and receipts – this process deletes the old payment and receipt, porting only the necessary information to the transfer. This means that the issues I was seeing were due to transfers that were not paired. Seemingly missed by the automation, but not an issue.

My issue appears to be resolved by removing the Divisions from these payments and receipts. Thanks for your efforts @Ealfardan !

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