I cannot use FX batch import despite 20+ years experience as a developer

[antonphp]

Continuing the discussion from Batch Create for exchange rates:

@Tut

My point was that batch operations are not simple. When they involve UUID’s, 95% of users have already been left behind. So the Guides do not even mention them, because for the vast majority of Manager users, it would just add to their confusion. For the 5% who understand them, the solution is typically obvious.

Being a software developer with 20 years experience, and developing complex web applications of many different kinds, I too struggle to understand why it is such difficult thing for the end user of Manager to simply import exchange rates in batch.

It is definitely a bug by all means - it’s just the level of the “user experience” where this bug is defined.

Please think about it: a senior developer is struggling to use the batch exchange rate the way it is designed now. It should be indicactive of some bad design decision made along the way, and you should seek for the improvement.

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Now, if you allow me to give some feedback/sugggestion…

When I click on the “Copy to clipboard” button, here is what I get:

Date ExchangeRateValue ExchangeRateIsInverse

There are several issues here:

1. The last column name is not helpful - it does not indicate what values are accepted. This is not user friendly. One possible solution is to make the name include the values that it accepts. For example: ExchangeRateIsInverseYesNo or ExchangeRateIsInverseTrueFalse etc.

2. Even with a better name, it is impossible to guess what you mean by “inverse” here. If my base currency is AUD, and the exchange rate is AUD/USD, what is direct and what is inverse? Nothing explains it, and what could be “obvious” to you, is not obvious for me as a user. You migth be just “in the context” - because you might have been working on it for so long that it has become obvious to you. Possible solution is to rename the column, e.g. AUDtoUSDRateValue. Having a name like this makes it crystal clear.

3. The main issue here is, it does not even ask me for the currency code I will be importing the exchange rates for. None of the columns talk about the currency. I have seen in other people’s screenshots it does say currency (but involves UUIDs to make it work). If I enter a new exchange rate manually, I can select USD, then enter the rate, and “USD” would show in the table:
   

   
   
   However, after “Batch Create” operation, there Currency column is empty for the newly imported rates, and there is no column for me to enter one:
   
   

Sorry to say this, but it is cryptic and confusing. There is no need for it to be this way. There are at least a few improvements that would improve the user experience dramatically. Unless they are implemented, you’ll keep getting requests about this same issue.

Also, I must say, this is a totally wrong way to see it from the user perspective:

Understanding batch operations has nothing to do with accounting knowledge. It requires some expertise in relational databases.

I bet you there is no need to make it that difficult for the end user. It can all be programmed away from them, and solved by providing them with a few buttons and selections along the way.

Do any of the improvments I proposed make sense to you?

[Ealfardan]

@antonphp

However, after “Batch Create” operation, there Currency column is empty for the newly imported rates, and there is no column for me to enter one

You need to use the UUIDs of currencies instead of names.

To find out the UUIDs of currencies, go to Settings > Currencies > Foreign Currencies and then Batch update and Copy to Clipboard

[antonphp]

Can you just put a Currency dropdown in the batch operation dialog, and if any currency is selected in it, just use it for all the fx rates being imported?

[Tut]

No. Currencies used to be predetermined in Manager. But there were too many to keep up with, and that did not allow for cryptocurrencies, among other problems. So now, users define their own currencies.

Further, batch operations have no dropdowns. From this and other posts, it is clear you are frustrated because you think batch operations should be more intuitive. But they were never meant for casual users, and most Manager users have never used a batch operation. They are meant for sophisticated users who have the ability to figure out the very things you are complaining about. The fact that you are suggesting solutions shows that you have the skills necessary to use batch operations. But if you’re going to do so, you need to accept that they were always meant as secondary features.

[lubos]

Well, my view is that batch operations will need to improve.

1. It will need to accept Code or Reference on top of GUID identifier. So if you are importing exchange rates, then you can either use GUID identifier for currency or Code.
2. There should be ability to batch update single column at once. Something like Find & Recode under Receipts or Payments but this should be generic approach that would work across all tabs and fields. This would be user-friendly approach within the program without going into the spreadsheet.
3. Also, I need to fix the issue with Batch Create so it shows more columns (or all) by default.

These three improvements would solve all the issues @antonphp is complaining about.