i wish you to add this into next versions Of manager Mr. @lubos
- purchase invoice Copy To >>> Expenses claims
- Expenses Claims Payee suppliers list - other text filed
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That would make no accounting expense. A purchase invoice records an obligation of the business to your supplier. An expense claim records your obligation to some other entity, such as an employee or owner, who has already paid the supplier with their own funds.
In one way, an expense claim is somewhat like a purchase invoice. The business has purchased something on credit from the expense claim payer.
Can you describe a valid use case for this feature?
as you mentioned above I’m an Employee i purchased some materials for the business . i paid to the supplier from my own funds.
in this situation i must record this purchase invoice and in same time as an expenses claim for me as an employee
also when viewing the vat transactions report it doesn’t show the payee only if it were a purchase invoice.
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@sarwat, you are attempting to use the program incorrectly. You should not enter both an expense claim and a purchase invoice. The business does not owe the supplier anything, because you already paid the supplier from your personal funds. The business only owes you as an expense claim payer.
First of all, there is no such thing in Manager as a “vat transactions report.” Second, both the Tax Summary and Tax Transactions reports include purchases made via expense claims.
I sometimes enter a Purchase Invoice that was paid by an Expense Claim payer as a Purchase Invoice, either because it is helpful to track total purchases from the supplier or because it simplifies the processing of the Expense Claim.
When entering the Expense Claim, I enter it as below
This work perfectly well for my needs
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We do it like that, it is very easy to link all suppliers transactions specially for taxable purchases per supplier
So I recommend this feature.
The problem with that approach, @Ehab, is that the report is wrong, because the business had no taxable transaction with the supplier.
Since no banker or auditor is likely to ask for that report, it may not matter to you. But you should recognize the distortion now captured in your report.
In my case, the supplier a totally invoices the business, the expense claim just pays the supplier
We avoid this altogether as we would ask the staff to provide the payment receipt with their expense claims. There would be no use of invoices as we exclusively use invoices in cases where the businesses either give us a credit period or where we provide credit.
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A lot of businesses are requesting from their expenses claimers to create the purchase invoice against them “the business” by recording the business Tax number and business name commercial ID… etc, and that’s what happens, so actually we can consider these invoices a taxable transaction between the business and the supplier, not the Payer.
Regulations of VAT here in KSA consider the expenses incurred by the employee in favor of the business for a “commercial purpose” as an output tax that can be reclaimed and is not considered as “non-refundable” expenses for the employee.
I know that could not be the main purpose of the Expenses Calim Tab, but, why not?!
We can take advantage of linking all these invoices to the supplier, and the taxable transaction per supplier is very useful for us to know who from our suppliers especially (cash suppliers) we can open a credit account with him based on the transaction history between us. it’s easier to have a supplier statement with the transaction from supplier statement reports than any other way.
Do you see any inconsistencies with the accounting principles or regulations here?
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also one of the benefit of copying purchase invoice to expenses claims if you are using foreign currencies for the supplier you may forget to enter the right amount you claim in your local currency
in this case no need for existing the tax code if it is already copied from purchase invoice , you claim the total amount of the invoice include vat.
Our expense claimants have to add a tax receipt that contains such information. We pay our claimant, the items listed in the expense claim as copied from the receipt and as such these are allocated to their relevant accounts. As @Tut explains we pay our claimant, that is the claimants name is registered in the bank statement and we refer to the expense claim number. The expense claim can be used for auditing as you can trace our company payment to the expense claimant via bank statement, check the expense claim which lists the original supplier and the items and VAT paid (where applicable), etc.
Anyway whatever works for any of us but I agree with @Tut on this.
@Ehab, regulations in KSA may allow VAT on an expense incurred by the employee in favor of the business to be claimed as output tax. Other jurisdictions might not, unless the employee were independently registered. But either way, an expense paid by an employee to a supplier is not an expense paid by the business to a supplier. It can never be backed up by the record of a business payment. There is a difference.
Yes. As I’ve said, you are misreporting who the counter-parties were. Can you point to actual language in your regulations that permits this treatment?
If this is important to you, then you should alter your policies and not permit payments to suppliers to be made by employees. Or you should handle things the way @Joe91 demonstrated. What that effectively does is record that the employee paid off the purchase invoice (to the business) rather than the supplier. But that still misrepresents what really happened, so I do not like it.
@sarwat, your comments about currencies raise even further difficulties, because the supplier, employee, and business base currencies could all be different. This is another example where the particular workflow of one user cannot necessarily be incorporated into the program because it will not work for all users.
VAT on Employee Benefits Guideline
This guide has been updated recently and I haven’t read it accurately but you can find something related to what we’re talking about in page 11
I am aware of the document you provided. In my opinion, it allows recovery of input VAT in the situation you describe. And Manager’s expense claim processing accomplishes that automatically. But it does not authorize substitution of the supplier for the employee as the counterparty. In other words, it does not authorize raising a purchase invoice in the name of the supplier.
So, while it permits counting the input VAT without requiring registration of the employee, it does not permit creation of artificial purchase invoices, because purchase invoices need to correspond to real tax invoices from suppliers. Therefore, if you want a complete history of your relationship with a supplier, you need to maintain that in a different manner or restrict your purchasing practices to the use of purchase invoices.
Great, I agree with you but actually no harm of doing it like what I do because I control all these transactions suppliers under custom control account “other cash supplier” if They reach an appropriate limit I’l move them to “ main suppliers” and change the way we deal with him. Then there is no need to purchase via employees.
I forgot the main topic here
Please, Copy purchase invoice to expense claim is very handy feature and it help in more than my described uses sure. 
So, @Ehab, you agree with my explanation of the accounting (and potential legal) arguments against your suggestion, but you want to have this feature anyway. You might personally remember be satisfied with the procedure you are using, but I cannot see how it overcomes any of the problems I mentioned. And while you might remember to do everything necessary to keep things straight in your own workflow, others would be likely to forget and become confused or end up with double entries of expenses and VAT.
I decline to put a request into the ideas category that builds errors or misrepresentations of events into accounting records.