Great idea @Abeiku, please start the new topic.
It would depend on the accounting requirements on every country or GAAP. On IFRS, you must decide whether the investment will be disposed short/long term at the beginning because the accounting of the realized gains is different on each case.
I understand what he’s asking for is for the flexibility to account for it accordingly.
I have given several Analyzer/Machine to my customers Free of Cost.
The ownership of these analyzers is mine.
Customers only purchase consumables for those Analyzers regularly.
Should I put these Analyzers to Investment Tab?
No it is not part of investment tab which was established for trading in stock / shares.
The Analyzers are your assets and should be recorded in Manager as such and the payments you made to purchase these assets should be recorded against them. You sell the consumables so I assume you would invoice the customers for that and record the receipts as part of income (sales) or you just take receipts straight away against sales.
New to this Forum.
Like the new Investments functionality, Lubos. It is a good addition.
I am using Special and Control Accounts for recording Investments and this work-around delivers an adequate solution. The Custom Reports also provide the required listings (Summary and Detail levels) to track quantity, costs and simple gain/loss on disposal (using a manually calculated average cost of sale input for the disposed quantity).
However, to record changes like, say demergers, the Journal Entry Form does not have the “qty” field input (to register quantity of shares received arising from the demerger corporate action); thus, I use a bank clearing/suspense account to record respective payment and receipt to effect the demerger transaction.
Will it be a significant programme modification to include of the “qty” field in the Journal Entry Form?
This will be to put quantity and or cost changes through to the special account used as the Investment registers.
And I think this addition should also work similarly within the Investments functionality under consideration/construction.
Journal entries already include a quantity field in the only context where it makes sense, transactions involving the Inventory on hand account—after an inventory item has been chosen. And that is only because financial and quantity aspects of inventory ledgers are separate in Manager. Otherwise, journal entries only move portions of account balances, not “countable” things. And a journal entry would not be able to post your quantity anywhere or do anything with it.
To have Manager track quantities, you would need to treat shares as inventory items. There have been many discussion in the forum about how to do that over the years. Do not misunderstand me. I am not saying tracking investments with inventory features is a convenient solution; it is not. That is what led to introduction of the Investments tab. But the developer (above in this very thread) acknowledges that more capabilities are needed. The Investments tab right now is really just a placeholder for future developments. I think you should not hope that those developments will include jamming investment management features into journal entries. Think about the very example you gave: a stock split or merger does not change account balances, so there would be nothing to debit or credit.
@ Tut, Thanks for a very quick response.
Yes, Inventory is an overkill solution for Investments - though principles are very similar.
Simplicity and the ease of use provide for good User Experience of Manager without detracting from the functionality of the solution for complex transactions.
Perhaps, I was not clear enough in previous question: expanding on the example of demerger - this involved:
- creation of a new Investment for the demerged entity - different Account/Code
- increase in Amount/Cost and quantity held in the new Investment
- reduction of the Amount/Cost - of the Old Account/Code
The 2 entry solution (1 payment and 1 receipt) used works.
Sorry to reiterate but please do reconsider how quantity and cost tracking in Investments for events such as stock splits, consolidation and mergers/demergers which all (sorry to contradict) do involve a change of the quantity held, and in some cases also a return of capital, should be transacted (i.e. use the 2 entry solution above or an inter Investment Transfer etc…).
This is not something for me to consider. I’m a forum moderator, not the developer. There is a long way to go before the Investments tab is suitable for real-life investment management.
Using Manger v22.3.4
I want to divide and report my share investments in the following groups
- Australian shares
- International shares
- Listed property
- Probably others in the future
I assumed I would do this in Manager via user entered control accounts for Investments. Looking in
Settings → Control Accounts
I can define Control accounts for:
- Bank accounts
- Cash accounts
- Fixed assets (at cost, and accumulated depreciation)
- Capital accounts
- Others with other tabs enabled Add custom control accounts | Manager
But not “Investments”
Am I missing something or is this functionality not available?
Is there a work around or are most people just not classifying their share investments while waiting for the functionality to be added.
So how are you actually using Control accounts with Manager Investments?
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Just checked yesterday after updating. This functionality is not yet available.
He is probably saying that he doesn’t use Investments tab but, instead he created different Special Accounts under Custom Accounts.
Oh, that would make sense
Manager’s investment tab does create a “Capital gains on investments”.
Is this a first in first out calculation (desirable) or some other method?
A use case for first in first out is:
Tax on Capital gains is levied at a discounted rate in Australian if the asset has been held for over a year. As a result when selling shares there is a tax advantage in selling those which have been held for over 12 months first (on the basis that when you later sell more shares, more of the remaining may also be eligible for the discounted tax rate). This tax minimisation strategy is achieved by selling the shares which have been held for more than 12 months first (first in first out approximating this best).
Please don’t assume that what might be a wise strategy in your situation should be imposed, or even a default choice, for others. Different jurisdictions have different regulations, offering different options to investors. There can be valid reasons for using other methods for calculating capital gains.
Sorry I was not clear.
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The intent of the post was to describe a use case.
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I had no intention of implying it was the only use case.
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I had no intention of describing the optimal functioning for other users in other jurisdictions for the simple reason, other users will know their regulations better than me. As a result they will have to describe their use case themselves.
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Once done we can all think of a solution which addresses by far the majority of use cases.
Mmm
Perhaps my writing style is a problem.
My posts are sometimes long. The intention was only to summarise the post conclusion early not make a universal declaration. My mistake.
Thanks for clarifying, @Patch. How well I know the misunderstandings that can arise from writing hastily on this forum. I just wanted to throw my thought into the mix because your ideas are sometimes so good they get implemented quickly. I wanted to be sure other options would be available if something eventually gets added to the program. (I am only too mindful that we are still left with only the first depreciation option that was created.)
I would also like Control account functionality for investments to be added as @Patch and others have requested.
I have recently started using the Investments functionality and have found that it is not possible to select the Investments GL account in Sales Invoices and Purchase Invoices. Could this be changed to make it available please?
After trialing the Investments functionality I found the listing is quite good but I could not get it to reduce the values correctly on recording a sale - maybe I am missing something.
It seems that further development is not a priority.
If further development does go ahead I would suggest that there needs to be some way to identify each separate purchase instance of a stock including the quantity.
Maybe an in line reference identifier in the dissection lines of Investment Purchase Invoice/Payment Txns would accomplish this, with the same in the Investment Sales Invoice/ Receipt Txns to be able to select the appropriate instance of stock that is to be sold.
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@AJD Good points.
Some other setup/transactional points to articulate (and which is probably or already part of the investments programming requirements criteria under development):
#1 Contract Note (Buy/Sell) transactions with Share Brokers do not completely fit in with the existing systems for Purchase/Sales invoices (as you have commented above); and in addition to the “New Investment” function under the “Investment” Tab; functions for “New Contract Note” and “New Broker (or Counter-Party)” functions could perhaps be established to keep these functionalities within the Investments Tab; and
#2 Share Broker accounts are both Customer and Supplier type at the same time; with Share Brokers normally offsetting transactions so that settlements (Receipt/Payment) are done as a net amount either as a payment or receipt directly (according to Share Broker terms of trade). There has already been significant forum discussion regarding how the Customer/Supplier functionalities could evolve to resolve this need (and how it could solve some specific user needs as articulated in this forum e.g. by Profile - cavlovic - Manager Forum)
#3 also as of release 22.3.64 - Control account functionality is yet to be connected to Investments