I’m trying to see how investments are suppose to be used but the Manager v24.4.11.1424 & v24.4.13.1433 behaviour seems erratic to me.
If an investments control account is left blank so defaults to “Investments”, when some shares are sold an uncategorised “Capital gains on investments” account is created and the capital gains is added to that. However if the investment is put in a user specified investment account, when some shares are sold no entry is created in the profit and loss section.
Reports → Investment Summary → calculation Unrealised gains. But Investment → Revaluations → Enter the calculate unrealised gains (unrealised by the tax office as not sold but share holders realise the revaluation) → non zero “Realised Gain” results in a $0 realised entry
Am I missing something or is the investment functionally not working atm
Creating a new test business from scratch results in different behaviour again.
No capital gain component is created when shares are sold. No entry is created in Profit & loss, Capital gains on investments.
Non zero investment revaluations can be entered in Investment Revaluations. Results in a corresponding entry in Profit & loss, Capital gains on investments. Creating and investment control account and selecting this control account results in no entry in the Profit & loss but this time for investment revaluations.
Perhaps we need the ability to select for each investment
Business has multiple owners / members. Value of each members holding is recalculated at least at the end of each financial year.
For Investments such as shares revaluation at the end of financial year result in a non taxable income which is distributed to members balance ie realised by Members but not by the tax authority as taxable income.
Investment share sales result in taxable income (realised by the business and tax office). Note unrealised adjustment is also recalculated at least by the end of the financial year.
Test Data
2022-01-10 Purchase 500 shares @ $100.00 each in International 01 total $50,000
2022-06-30 Investment revaluation International 01 price $104.00 x 500 =$52,000, revaluation $2,000
2022-12-20 Sale 100 shares @ $110 each in International 01 total $11,000, Taxable capital gains $1000
2022-06-30 Investment revaluation International 01 price $115.00 x 400 = $46,000. Which is $,6000 more than the purchase price but as already reported $2000 revaluation, the change in valuation is +$4,000.
Old Business summary page (with accounts for manual data entry). Note Manager system account “Capital gains on investments” contain the capital gain on declared to the tax department on sale of 100 shares at $110, purchased at $100 each, a 2022-12-20 event
In a newly created Manger business. Note Note Manager system account “Capital gains on investments” contain the change on investment shares revaluation, 500 shares valued at $104 vs purchase price $100 each, a 2022-06-30 event, calculated via the Investment summary report as Unrealised gains and entered as realised gain in the Investment Revaluations tab.
Audit
Note comparison to the behaviour described in this idea and the behaviour of a newly created Manager business, suggests on share sale the capital gain should be manually entered in the Investment revaluation tab. An unexpected suggestion give it can all be entered on the receipt / sales invoice
Those improvements look excellent.
Experimenting in a test business the realised and unrealised gains work well as does the interaction between realised and unrealised gains.
I also like the way Setting → “Investment Market Prices” is used by Report → “Investment Revaluation Worksheet” which efficiently creates “Investment Revaluations”
Well done.
I suspect you are already aware of the following behaviour, and I just need to be patient but to document the current implementations limitations so others don’t need to refined them;-
Investments now use the following default control accounts
Balance sheet
Investments, at cost
Investments, market value increment
Profit and Loss Statement
Realized investment gains (losses)
Unrealised investment gains (losses)
Trying to change them is probable best not attempted atm (tested using Manager v24.5.8.1521)
With comparison to Fixed assets structure
Settings → Control Accounts
Investments → Balance Sheet group account
There is no “Investment Revaluations”
Investment → My investment → Edit
Control account to replace default “Investments” / “Investments, at cost”
There is no “Control account - market value increment”
There is no “Custom Realized investment gains (losses) PL account”
There is no “Custom Unrealised investment gains (losses) PL account”
Changing the Investment → My investment → Control account from the default blank
Selected account is used instead of “Investments, at cost”
“Realized investment gains (losses)” is also not used
Selling an investment shows return in “Retained earnings” but not PL
Yeah, my focus at this point was to put together something that works well. The ability to customize control accounts or be able to select custom accounts on profit & loss statement will be added a bit later.
One thing I’m confused about is, what you mean by this:
Are you reporting a bug? I’m not able to reproduce this issue. In my case selling an investment always shows in Realized investment gains (losses) in PL even if I use custom control account.
Yes, it’s a bug.
If you are not easily seeing it, I suspect it occurs in business with investment setups prior to some program changes.
The behaviour was there prior to your recent changes as described in posts 1 & 2 above.
I can recheck it is resolved by creating a new business again but have not done that again yet.
With Manager v24.05.10.1523 setting the investment “Control Account” result in that being used instead of the system default “Investments, at cost” balance sheet account as before however now the system default “Realized investment gains (losses)” Profit and loss account continues to be used in old and new businesses.
Thank you for fixing this.
Hopefully adding customisation for the other 3 system generated investment accounts is not too onerous task.
