But I don’t think this is a workaround. It is production order as it converts inventory items from one type to another. Delivery notes or goods receipts are not capable of this.
So I’m not sure what you’ve been doing until now. When service provider has converted items from type A to type B, how it was recorded in Manager?
For a factory it is true that when we receive an order we have to produce the good. But produce does not mean everything that happens after receiving the order is a production order. I will explain something in case you feel this suggestion can improve Manager.
The procedure actually followed by a manufacturer will be as follows:
Until now in Manager we were recording the inventory out through delivery note and processed inventory in as a purchase invoice which is the actual labor bill from the labor contractor.
It is more than capable for us long as Qty on hand reduces with a delivery note and increases with a goods receipt we can manage the inventory and our workflow at level close to perfection. We will be ignoring the values shown under Qty to receive and Qty to deliver at present. This is the only choice we have if we want to maintain our workflow.
And i hope we will not be forced to make a sales invoice for every delivery note and a purchase invoice for the every goods receipts in any future updates. That would mess up the whole thing again for us.
Is this when the raw material A is sent to the service company and returned as raw material B
If yes, then Lubos suggestion of a open /close date Production Order is the solution and it would all be managed by the Stores Dept. This sort of Production Order doesn’t have to be done by the Production Dept. If you like call it a Conversion Order, the converting of A into B.
Your current usage of Delivery Notes & Goods Receipts is leaving the inventory items with distorted balances, which you have noted by your comments “We will be ignoring the values shown under Qty to receive and Qty to deliver at present”. This distortion can be eliminated by using the Production (Conversion) Order.
If you add custom fields to the Production (Conversion) Order, then those fields could contain the same information as on the Delivery Note - Goods Receipt - a combination document.
The top would be the Delivery Note, the middle the Production (Conversion) Order and the bottom the Goods Receipts. If it’s to difficult to create within Manager with custom fields then create / design a standalone document which can contain all your legally required information fields plus others such as signature panels etc.
Then within Manager the only part that requires processing is the Production (Conversion) Order section (transferring the inventory from raw material A into raw material B) and then this would eliminate all of the qty figure distortion under Qty to receive and Qty to deliver.
The above system is the exact same system used by many businesses when they “consign” inventory to third parties for a conversion type process.
Yes.
I understood this when lubos guided me. And i would even design a standalone document. But it is easily said than done. The problem would be as follows.
The delivery note has automatic numbering. So when i create a standalone document for movement to job order i need to enter the next serial number. When I make delivery note next time in Manager the serial number should be the next number to that of the standalone document. This will only cause errors in the long run. So the best solution for me was to use the delivery note and goods receipt. I hope now you understand.
@sharpdrivetek it amazes me you are still fighting so hard around with this. I hate it to break it to you but I am thinking you are making mistakes in your books. You seem to confuse ownership with possession which @Brucanna explained to you earlier.
Delivery notes and Goods receipts note must stay out of your production process. Especially as the goods you send to your business partner gets returned and you maintain ownership. I said it and I repeat, the goods even when sent to your business partner is still your goods. They only change location. Therefore create a location to represent the various manufacturing places and carry out all production there and capitalise production costs of business partners there.
There are two ways you can capitalise your business partners bill to the inventory.
By using Add non-inventory cost into production to capitalise expenses (expense account will be credited) to the inventory. With this however you will record your business partners bill against the expense account (expense account will be debited) to zero out the balance of the expense account account.
When you receive your business partners bill, capitalise the amount to your inventory using this https://forum.manager.io/t/add-freight-in-to-inventory-item-costs/9610
You will have to be moving your inventory from location to location as required.
Now, i don’t really know but how would you use Delivery notes to record goods sent to a Manufacturing partner (a supplier in form)? The goods Delivered note drop down only displays customers, so are you going to create that business partner as a supplier and a customer again on the system to record the movement of your inventory to and from them using delivery and Goods receipt notes? I am confused here, or you will want Lubos to enable contacts to be both customer and supplier.
I am not a moderator here but I think you are pushing this discussion too far. I have even lost focus of what you really want, I am confused. Various suggestions have been made for you which are very workable but you insist on making Lubos change settings which will affect other many users who are okay with how these Notes function in Manager.
I think you missed my post where I simply need a yes or no.
And that explains very much I am not insisting the admin to make any changes for me. I have convinced myself to sacrifice few features to improve productive time of an employee.
The combination document can be serially number - if they are created by a printer using NCR (carbonless) paper in pads - the top copy is sent with the goods. The duplicate remains in the pad and becomes the legal serially number register.
The point is, you don’t create accounting Delivery Notes or Goods Receipts for inventory on consignment. you create non-accounting Delivery Notes / Good Receipts - similar to a courier who drops off a package and then returns the package a few days later. All legally documented but not accounting transactions.
The contents of the package (the inventory item) is tracked by the Production (Conversion) Order and that is the only accounting transaction required
NO I don’t understand why you keep insisting on doing artificial accounting. As previously admitted - you have to ignore the values shown under Qty to receive and Qty to deliver - how unprofessional to maintain a set of account where certain inventory values aren’t valid - supported by reality.
You haven’t sacrificed few features, you have committed to maintaining unprofessional non-accounting standard sets of accounts which contain invalid inventory data.
If you were genuinely interested in improving the productive time of an employee which also maintained appropriate accounting standards then by now you would have adopted the solutions provided which you initially requested.
To me, to have the employee process one genuine accountings transaction (the Production (Conversion) Order) is far more efficient then having the employee process two artificial irrelevant accounting transactions (Delivery Note & Goods Receipt) which corrupt the accounts.
with all these now…
May I request for one thing here? Is there a way we can get the average cost of an item, as displayed earlier? When the purchase price fluctuates (including shipping costs) from batch purchases, it would be ideal if we can get the average landed cost.
Example:
Item A (First Purchase)
Purchase Qty: 10
Purchase price: 100 per unit
Shipping: 50
Average Landed Cost per unit: 105
Item A (Second Purchase)
Purchase Qty: 10
Purchase price: 110 per unit
Shipping: 65
Average Landed Cost per unit: 116.50
Let’s assume no sales has been recorded for this item. The qty in hand should be 20 at a cost of 2215, which means the average landed cost per unit is 110.75.
This figure was shown in the inventory window earlier, but now I do not know where it is. Would be nice if this comes back, as we, at times, calculate selling price from this for very important clients (by keeping margins low).
Yes I support, many users have voiced out their concern for the return of the average cost info.
I am sure it will be added back in one of the soon to come updates. [quote=“lubos, post:1, topic:9986”]
I’m still considering where to include average cost and total cost but it will probably be included in another report.
[/quote]
Yes please add average cost and cost asap it was a great feature which saved much time and now its like we can’t imagine manager without it. We are quite in pain with its removal
@sharpdrivetek
I haven’t read your all posts but a few so I’m not very well aware of the issue but as far as i assume wouldn’t Inventory tranfer tab / function is best for the issue labor processeing like you can add a new location say named as (contractor location) then do inventory tranfer to this location then when you receive the items back you again record a transfer and if some cost is involved then there a transfer cost tab is included which will be added to item average cost and like delivery notes the inventory tranfer template is like a document which resolves the legal issue
Would this work for you?
How did you deal with raw materials? What transaction did you use to decrease the quantity of hand for raw materials when shipping them to service supplier? Inventory write-off?
As it states in the quote used - “we were recording the inventory out through delivery note”
For documentation we used the delivery note. For inventory i had to include those raw materials too in the BOM while making production order. We did not have an issue with this since the BOM feature does not provide us the feature of calculating the actual cost of a finished good. If it did have the ability to calculate the qty of raw materials and the cost price of a finished good then we will not have used this method. I would have to made inventory write-off. But i guess the BOM is still something you are working on.
OK, so continue doing that.
The main issue I see is that you’ve been using Delivery Notes for different purpose that they were meant to be used for. And the latest upgrade punished you for that.
My guidance on this issue would be that your service providers converting raw materials into processed materials are different inventory locations (you are not buying or selling inventory, just moving in & converting it & moving out). Therefore to capture this transaction you should use Inventory Transfers tab instead of Delivery Notes.
There still needs to be production order written when raw materials get converted into processed materials. If you don’t want “store” people to have access to Production Orders tab, they will have to advice relevant person within your business that service provider has completed the job and Production Order should be entered to capture the event.
“Store” people can use Inventory Transfers tab to keep tracking what was shipped to service providers and what was received.
Thank you @lubos
I will use as you have suggested. I will have to customise the inventory transfer layout but that is ok.
In future will it be possible to have a sub order feature under production orders to record this conversion of inventory? This will give more clarity to what process needs to be done in-house and what is done outside. Also it will create a better BOM when it involves costing of a finished good.
Please ignore if what i am suggesting is wrong. I have used enough of your time already. smile
Why not create custom field on purchase order? This custom field can be shown as column under Production Orders tab so you can easily just filter one or the other type.
@fahadalarab I am deleting my previous response as it contradicts my earlier advise. Your Inventory Transfer would work as long as you added a Production Order into the middle.
“The manufacture buys raw material A into location X then sends it to a service provider (location Z) so that it can be converted into raw material B. The first Inventory Transfer would move raw material A out of location X and into location Z (the service provider), then you would do a Production Order for the conversion from A into B at location Z which would then be followed up by a second Inventory Transfer as the raw material b is moved back to location X.”
The advantage with this Production Order besides ensuring that the Inventory Item quantities are always correctly recorded at all locations, is that you can add the cost of the processing at the service centre into the value of raw material B so that it is correctly valued.
However a simpler approach would be @lubos suggestion of an Open / Close dated Production Order. When you send raw material A out you open a Production Order which will amend A’s Qty on hand value. When the raw material B is returned you close the Production Order and B’s Qty on hand is amended.
This Production Order has all the same benefits, always correct inventory values and added in costs. Also, the transport of the raw material to and from can be legally documented with out doing artificial accounting.
@sharpdrivetek the problem with your current process was clearly illustrated by @Abeiku. To use Deliver Notes implies that the service provider is a Customer and to use Goods Receipts implies that the service provider is a Supplier. Yet the service provider is neither a Customer nor a Supplier as you aren’t selling or buying any Inventory Items with them. Therefore your inappropriate usage of those documents are not only creating invalid artificial accounting entries which breach all accounting standards but by your own admissions are causing polluted Qty to deliver and Qty to receive quantities for those Inventory Items. How do you find this to be an acceptable practice especially as your justification is a false illusion regarding inventory management and employee efficiency.
bravo