Just to explain the need for Customer PO - The customer Order number is external to the manager system and for the customer their purchase order must appear on their Sales Invoices we generate, otherwise they refuse to pay the invoice saying “what authority do we have” to charge them.
This process is generally with larger businesses operating in a similar way we do where we too do not pay accounts from suppliers if they do not have our Manager generated PO on their Purchase Invoices sent to us.
By the way the prosess mentioned where Quotes are to be created as first port of call for every job is crazy. I will not have staff generating quotes for customers who do not ask for or require them.
I think what is important to remember is that @lubos is the developer and he will decide what is implemented. He has already stated (in my linked topic) that internal sales order references should not show on invoices. He added my topic to the ideas category.
So we don’t need to argue the case for that as he has already indicated agreement with this point and it is in the ideas category already.
With regards where to put the customer purchase order number - again I am sure that Lubos will agree as this is a very common requirement for many business to business transactions where it is common to receive the client’s purchase order and use that information to process the order. So I would wait till Lubos responds to this topic as I agree, everyone is just repeating themselves now.
The fact that you say this indicates you don’t understand how this process works. When I send my client an invoice, they need to find their purchase order on their system and convert it to a purchase invoice. How can they do that if they have manually check every purchase order raised against my company to find the right purchase order to convert to purchase invoice!
I accept that you don’t use it, but I can tell you right now, it is absolutely necessary for the customer purchase order number to be on that sales invoice. My sales order number has no relevance to them as the sales order number is an internal document used by my company. My clients won’t have my sales order number anywhere on their accounting system. They will have my quote number and their purchase order number and my sales invoice number. That’s it,.
Previously, it wasn’t possible to link sales invoice with sales order. Order field on sales invoice was free text field so you’ve put there whatever you wanted.
Now that linking has been implemented and linking provides additional functionality, I need to reconsider this.
I actually understand the process well and the need for customers to trace their order to invoice to be able to compare. So you claim therefore that the Purchase Order needs a reference number that the Seller needs to put on the Sales Invoice to facilitate the Customer in their tracking so that payment can proceed based on the order made and invoice received.
Where we differ is that many businesses including business to business use 3 reference numbers on their invoices:
Order number
Customer number
Invoice number
However, all these numbers are generated by the business. The customer should use these numbers in their own system but you suggest that the business needs to use the customer numbers. So we keep practicing what in my view is more common and you do what you need to do which can already be done with custom fields and custom themes for those that need it.
I agree with you that internal sales order number does not need to appear on printed sales invoices and customer statements.
That is actually the last thing he said. Below the above 2 sentences. So Lubos does not agree with you either.
The Invoice number and Customer Number will not help my client find the relevant purchase order. So you are saying that instead of me putting in the client purchase order number on my sales order form, what you do is get a purchase order form from client and then reply with a sales order reference number which they put onto their purchase order and they use my sales order number to find their purchase order?
Interesting. I will think about that one. The problem I can see with that, is that there is no way to link their purchase order to my sales order as they would send their PO to me before I can create a sales order. So the reference numbers will never match. I want to attach their purchase order to my sales order. If the numbers are completely different, it is very easy (and I have done it before) to link the wrong attachment to the form.
I am not convinced that I should expecting my clients to know my sales order reference as they already have a reference number created via their purchase order as well as my quote number. Why create yet another reference for them in addition to the one that they have already created.
I see where you are coming from now, but I am not sure that this is the ideal way to do it.
The quote number is brought through and appears next to the customer details. Why is it next to the customer details? Good question: it is not issued by the customer and should be above next to the date and reference.
This is the copy from SO to SI both the SQ number and the SO number appear next to the customer. Again inconsistent as both of the documents are not customer issued documents and should be above next top the reference number.
Delete the SQ number and the SO number and presto a field to enter a SQ number appears next to the ref number where it should be. Also, an un-identified order number field appears. Is this to enter a SO prepared outside of Manager or is this for the customer’s PO? I suspect it is for the former (SO) and if so it is now in the correct position. If it is for the latter (CPO) then it is in the incorrect position and it should be next to the customer datails.
So, my question to @lubos is why are there 2 sets of fields for SQ number and SO number on the invoice? Also, why do they appear in 2 different places? In the guides, as far as I can see they are only shown as appearing next to the ref number, so why the inconsistency?
I understand that they need to be there to provide the linkages to mark SQ and SO as completed but, I believe they should only appear in the 1 place, next to the ref number.
This would leave the area next to the customer details free for a PO number field.
Thank you all I am done with this topic thanks for your patience and understanding where the first point made below is the big issue for staff / management.
That observation is correct, it is in the wrong place. One would expect the Customer Number to show (if one was assigned when setting up the customer)
Correct also.
Re 3 & 4. Indeed as also argued by @compuit and others in case a customer provided a reference number for their order it would be helpful in such case that there is an option to include a Your Reference which would be the PO number.
I think this whole argument is pointless. It will be a plus to have a built-in mechanism (field) for this. But what is special about that when the tools already exist for the user to build this in.
You can create the same custom field (Customer Reference) for Sales Quotes, Sales Orders, Sales Invoice, Delivery Note and the content of the custom field will flow through when the ‘copy to’ function is used.
There are more important requests in the ideas category and I don’t think Lubos is going to make this a priority knowing very well there is a solution for this already. All fields are fields, doesn’t matter if it was put there by you or by the developer.
Knowing you can spend 2 minutes or less to create custom fields for this purpose, how can you deny yourself of all the benefits of using the Sales Orders module?
My last chime … We discussed the Custom field thing but it is not fit for purpose as the system stands because the SO reference appears as a Order Number on the Sales Order… so either way something needs to be done at some point.
I agree that a custom field for CPO would be a solution, however the CPO is one of the most important elements on a SI, because as others have mentioned, some customers will insist on their PO number being quoted on the SI before they will make payment. This is why it should be a built-in field for the SI.
Also, the confusing terminology and placement of fields needs to be addressed.
One large consumer goods supplier has one of the clearest invoices that containss the following:
Customer number (generated by supplier)
Order number(generated by supplier)
Order date (generated by supplier)
Delivery time (generated by supplier)
Invoice number (generated by supplier)
Invoice date (generated by supplier)
Your reference (optional field when applicable when customer supplied a number such s PO number)
I understand that some businesses only trade where own and customer/client references are required but this should not affect any status on either side.
The solution is already available. Use a custom field (Customer Reference). I don’t think the customers will quit doing business with you because they saw an internally generated tracking number on your invoice.
If we are wrong, then why has Lubos added my post to the ideas category if there is nothing to fix?
The lack of customer purchase order reference was one of the biggest reasons for not using the sales order, but it was not the only reason. It’s only very recently that the status of sales orders has actually been implemented. Until that was implemented there was little point in using the sales orders as there was no status on them.
Custom fields are meant to be used to customise the program to suit your particular business with niche requirements. It’s not meant to be used as a workaround for things that should be integrated into the program.
This is a very similar argument to the status of sales quotes idea that I battled to get into the ideas category because some people who don’t use sales quotes and sales orders could not see the value in status and progress of sales quotes and orders. I feel this is really the same issue.
Until the developer responds and implements what he thinks is the best solution, I will wait before using sales orders as the future design of sales orders is not clear and not fully implemented yet as demonstrated by @AJD
This is the problem you described. I was not misreading it as you created the problem yourself by entering the a PO number supplied by the Customer rather than the Order number generated by you as supplier (was first reference number and when copying to order it became the order number of you the supplier). My last post explain that you should not change that number. If you want to add a PO number generated by the customer you can as @Abeiku explained create a customs field.
Actually @Lubos is wrong in assuming that the Order number generated by the supplier can be hidden even though it is for internal use. The customer in many cases may first receive a sales order that can be reviewed. They may have enquiries and then should reference that number in email or by phone. After that the Invoice for payment purposes will be generated and as it is for external use needs an Invoice number that can be used to reference the payment.
Just to create some middle grounds here. Nobody is wrong. These are all conventions, and it would be wise on the part of the developer to have Manager accommodate both instead of picking one side over the other.
I see we got carried away in proving each other wrong that we forgot that we can actually have both as @WZM said here:
Noted. I will wait to see what Lubos decides because he is the developer after all. When I have some time, I will check up on these conventions to see whether it’s country specific or just user preference?
