I’m using the Desktop version of Manager on macOS Ventura (13.6.4). I recently updated my copy of Manager to 24.4.8.1419, and I just noticed that a new folder has appeared in my Documents folder. The folder is called Manager.io and the only thing in it is a tiny (74 byte) file called ‘data’. This is bad behaviour for a Mac app. The Documents folder should be reserved for the user to save their documents, not used by apps to save data files and the like. Is this a bug or new intended behaviour? Is it safe to delete this folder? Not sure if this is relevant, but another thing that happened when I upgraded to this version is that Manager didn’t know where my data file was. It turned out I didn’t know where it was either! I had long ago moved it to a custom location but I didn’t realise that Manager had (sometime around 2017 it seems), changed it back to ‘~/.local/share/Manager’, and what I thought was my Manager file was now many years out of date. So, I located the current file, moved it back to where I wanted it, and used the ‘Change Folder’ button (that appears at the very bottom of the window when you first open Manager) to get things in sync again.

[image] Kal: I notice that the ‘Change Data Folder…’ command now exists in the Mac’s File menu. I assume this replaces the ‘Change Folder’ button that used to appear at the bottom of the window when you first opened Manager. That’s correct. The old Change Folder button would be creating data file. New command doesn’t. So when you use the new Change Folder function to set your custom data folder, you can delete data file manually because new version won’t be creating it anymore.

Default application data folder for desktop edition is My Documents, Documents or equivalent. If you change the folder, then Manager will create file data that just contains your new application data folder path.

I assume this is a recent change then? The Manager.io folder only appeared in my Documents folder after a recent update. As I mentioned, this has long been considered bad practice on the Mac. I’ll quote from the old Apple developer docs: Don’t Pollute User Space It is important to remember that the user domain (/Users) is intended for files created by the user. With the exception of the ~/Library directory, your application should never install files into the user’s home directory. In particular, you should never install files into a user’s Documents directory or into the /Users/Shared directory. These directories should only be modified by the user.

[image] Kal: It is important to remember that the user domain (/Users) is intended for files created by the user. Well, I’d argue that businesses that you create in Manager are files created by the user. So not sure what is your interpretation. You can argue, that data file is not a file created by the user. It’s user preference which should be perhaps in ~/Library/Application Support but I’m really not going to overcomplicate things over single file that is typically less than 100 bytes and only created if you do not want to use default application data folder.

The folder named Manager.io is not a folder that I created. Manager put it there without my permission. Now if I can’t even delete it without Manager losing track of the path to my data file, this isn’t a grey area open to personal interpretation. Manager is clearly breaking the ‘Don’t Pollute User Space’ rule. [image] lubos: but I’m really not going to overcomplicate things over single file that is typically less than 100 bytes and only created if you do not want to use default application data folder. Overcomplicate things for who? For the user or for yourself? Imagine every app decided it was okay to do this. My Documents folder would be an unusable mess! The file size has nothing to do with it. It’s about respecting the user’s autonomy over their Documents folder.

Alright. So basically what we are arguing about is that data file should really be in ~/Library/Application Support folder.

I don’t know if Apple has current documentation on this, but this archived page explains various Library directories and their purposes. It says that Application Support contains ‘files that your app creates and manages on behalf of the user and can include files that contain user data.’ So yes, that sounds like the right default location to me. Personally I do like the option of saving my data in a folder of my choice, but again, Manager should store the path to that folder in its preferences/settings, and these files should also be in the Library, hidden from the user.

@Karl, maybe you did not understand what @Lubos was explaining. The Manager.io folder you are referring to used to save and use Manager Data and not the Application, which is ion the Applications folder. As soon as you create a business in Manager it will save that Business file in the Manager.io folder because it in essence is a document same as a spreadsheet or word document. If you do not want Manager.io to create such folder then it can only be part of the Manager Applications folder (i.e. Library). As user I appreciate that Manager stores its data outside of the Applications folder by default.

[image] lubos: data file should really be in ~/Library/Application Support folder. Sounds like a reasonable default to me for user data managed by the application (Manager).

@eko, I think I understand exactly what Lubos is saying, I just don’t happen to agree with him. [image] eko: As soon as you create a business in Manager it will save that Business file in the Manager.io folder because it in essence is a document same as a spreadsheet or word document. I don’t quite agree with that. There are some apps which leave it entirely up to the user to create, save and manage documents, and a user may create hundreds of such documents. Your spreadsheet and word processor examples fall clearly into that category. There are others which, in Apple’s language, manage user data ‘on behalf of the user’, and that data is typically stored in some kind of database (though it needn’t be). A diary app, or a project management app, or even an email client might fall into this category, as does an accounting app like Manager. Manager can still give users the option to save their data in a folder of their choosing—that’s fine, and as I just said in my previous comment, I like this option. But the key word here is ‘choose’. Apps should never enforce the folder structure within the user’s Documents folder. [image] eko: If you do not want Manager.io to create such folder then it can only be part of the Manager Applications folder (i.e. Library). As user I appreciate that Manager stores its data outside of the Applications folder by default. That’s not correct. The Library folder we’re talking about is inside the user’s home folder, not within the Applications folder. (There’s also a system-wide Library folder, but again, it has no relation to the Applications folder.)

Well it happens to be what Manager does. You articulated your disagreement very well, but that does not mean that this practice needs changing. It is up to @Lubos to review and see if it makes sense to prompt for a data folder upon installation.

'Manager.io' folder appearing in user 'Documents' folder on Mac

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lubos August 23, 2025, 2:20am 17

This issue has been now resolved. Manager doesn’t need data file anymore.

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'Manager.io' folder appearing in user 'Documents' folder on Mac

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