DESKTOP EDITION CLOUD EDITION SERVER EDITION GUIDES FORUM

Improvements to Manager Installer


#1

@lubos

please consider the below suggestions that can improve the installation of Manager.

  1. Allow a step during new installation where the user has to select an Application data folder to save the business files to. At present Manager does this automatically and creates the application data under the first drive (C drive in case of Windows) unless the user changes this under Preferences. the problems associated with this is that most users leave the location to the default and if a system crash occurs, the first possible solution adopted in most cases would be to wipe the system drive partition to reinstall the OS. this deletes the application data folder from the drive which cannot be recovered. A warning along with this step describing the risk of creating the application data folder in the default drive will be an added safety precaution.

  2. Give user the option to install shortcuts on the desktop, program folder, quick launch, etc. Since now the business file can run directly rather than importing to Manager, most users would want to place the shortcut of their business file rather than the Manager program itself. when updating, the new shortcuts appear which is not actually necessary and is a bit confusing at times.

  3. The Manager download file size could show the actual file size on the download page. it is somewhat misleading. some users maybe concerned of additional files being downloaded with the program. for example, the windows version says 8.7MB on the download page when it is actually around 11.6MB
    image


Update windows installer download size
#2

Can’t you do this in Windows? You can do it in macOS. Or do you mean create the shortcuts during the actual installation process?


#3

I think this is what he means.

However, on a slightly related note to what you wrote… you may be interested to know that the macOS and Windows application installs are very different to one another. Windows applications generally hook into multiple places in the OS, whereas macOS applications are pretty much just a folder with files contained within them. The folder has a .app extension, which macOS treats in a unique way.

There are exceptions in both cases, however - Windows has standalone executables that only require a single file, and macOS has some applications that hook into several places (the most obvious one I can think of is actually Microsoft Office for Mac, ironically).


#4

yes we can do this on Windows, mostly on all OS actually. what i meant initially was Manager creates the shortcuts automatically during every update without any prompt. there is no option for the user to select or deselect the required shortcuts to be installed.


#5
  1. Actually, I want to move the opposite direction and completely abstract away the file system from desktop users. There is Backup button to backup your businesses and it’s quite straightforward to use. For more advanced users who want to be in control where their data reside, I think Application Data folder is still magic box and it’s better if you just save your .manager file somewhere directly and open it directly by double-clicking on it. No need to move Application Data folder anywhere.
  2. You mean give users option to not create a shortcut, correct? Because right now Manager will create all those shortcuts by default.
  3. Right now, the download size is published on the website manually. I will need to automate this so as download size slowly creeps up, website will continue being up to date.

#6

But if you have multiple business’s then that means doing multiple file opening each day, besides the desktop (or task bar) being crowded with shortcut icons.

The efficiency of one (or double) click Manager icon should not be lost

As a comparison, one opens the spreadsheet / word processing programmes to access spreadsheets / text documents, we don’t have desktop shortcuts for every spreadsheet / text document.

Navigating via “my documents” to a Manager folder could be an alternative but I can’t see any gained efficiency in that, compared to single Manager desktop shortcut to all businesses.


#7

I agree. I haven’t seen any indication that this is going to be removed, so I don’t think there’s any need for concern.

lubos’ point seems to be more along the lines of there not being a need to move the Application Data folder for the vast majority of users.

Any user that is non-technical that just wants to open their file in Dropbox can double-click on that file. Any slightly more knowledgeable user can point their Application Data folder there and gain the extra benefits.


#8

agreed. i was just trying to say that not everyone is computer savvy and they do not know the risks if any unless it is pointed out to them. moreover, a small business would have just a single computer with a long list of users who know only what they are taught to do. if they are taught to go around a circle in clockwise they would do that but they would never think going anticlockwise too can get you around the same circle. also internet access is a privilege to few so no auto sync to google drive or such. so the point is if such a step was included they would understand the importance and risk.

correct.

understood. the concern is some new users may think additional malwares are downloaded due to the mismatch in file size. the doubt is greater when your internet speeds are average, gives the user time to get creepy thoughts. :grinning:


#9

this is not something to be concerned about. Almost all software asks to create the required shortcuts to their programs. its just a user choice. if you want the shortcuts you leave the option enabled while installing, and disabled if you don’t.

Manager installs the shortcuts automatically without any option given to the user. now that Manager can run a business file directly, users like me would just create a shortcut to the business file rather than the Manager program itself. So when Manager is updated this shortcut is overwritten. Such users would disable the creation of shortcuts during update. Users with multiple business can still have the shortcuts installed automatically.


#10

I think there’s a mismatch in understanding here.

Brucanna (I believe) is referring to .manager files that represent a business.
You (I believe) are referring to shortcuts to the Manager executable itself.


#11

I understood what @Brucanna meant.

  1. when a user creates a shortcut to their business file directly, he may rename the file as his business name or simply Manager. if it was renamed to Manager, when updating, this shortcut is replaced with the link to Manager program and not to the business file. if it was renamed to their business name, there is still an additional shortcut to Manager created which the user does not need. this creates confusion when there are multiple persons accessing Manager on the same computer.

  2. in my experience, the shortcut i created to my business file on the Quick Launch bar was always overwritten. the reason is Windows does not allow to pin the same program twice to your taskbar.


#12

To clarify - my points were purely in regards to day to day functioning, there was absolutely no mention of user choices during updating.


#13

an installer will not create shortcuts for individual business files but only for the Manager program itself. when a user already has a shortcut to their business setup they no longer need Manager creating a new shortcut to the program nor overwriting the existing shortcut when updating.


#14

Yes they do, currently shortcuts to businesses only does not provide access to all features, you still need to open - via Manager shortcut - to get access to those features such as “Preferences”.

But to repeat, my initial post “didn’t” relate to updating, installer or any other term which you wish to use.


#15

@lubos this is may not directly relation for current discussion. Currently by open directly from .manager file does it import to appdata folder in windows?

Additionally, is there any way forward of having the appdata at least have ‘some’ recognizeable name when creating new business .manager file?

This is still boundary to confusion of how typical to open manager program. In windows.

@sharpdrivetek

Try ‘syncthing’ which I currently configure, combo with any available cloud storage support folder sync. You can even sync it to android phone. ‘Locally…’


#16

No, opening a .manager file lets you access that file, but not other files, and only while the application is open. If you want it in the Application Data folder, you need to open Manager directly and import the business instead.

I believe there are technical limitations / consistency issues to consider here. It was like this for a short while, and then changed back again to the current naming convention. Because of that, I’m guessing it’s unlikely to go back to a human-readable name in the near future.

Edit: Slight edit to clarify / clear up what I was trying to say.


#17

You can make new entries, edit old ones, and anything else you can do with a file in the application data folder. You just cannot see it listed on or open it from the Businesses page. See this Guide: https://www.manager.io/guides/12280.

The limitation comes from inability of operating systems to handle all fonts that might be encountered in the many languages Manager is used in. Therefore, the program generates its own alphanumeric file names in characters acceptable to all operating systems.


#18

Sorry, I should have used better terminology.

By “lets you view the file and does nothing else”, I meant that you can do everything with that one file - but you cannot access other files, or the Users / Preferences / etc.


#19

@sharpdrivetek when installing on Windows, the latest version will allow you to uncheck shortcut creation (17.10.68).


#20

thanks @lubos

checked and the installer asks for the creation of shortcut.
however, only the option for Desktop shortcut is available.
the installer still automatically creates shortcuts to the Start menu group.
also, ability to create a Taskbar shortcut would have been beneficial to many.

so the suggestion initially was for three shortcuts,

  1. Desktop
  2. Start menu
  3. Taskbar / Quick launch

i hope there are further improvements to this after other priority improvements have been attended to.