Credit Cards repayments bank rule from main bank

Hello

I have searched the forum and did not find any concrete solution.

I have 5 credit cards and one Main Bank account that pays monthly set amounts or full amounts to repay credit cards all set up like this = https://guides.manager.io/7035

everything is working fine but only if I do it manually.

I would like to import Main bank transaction from now on and I did a test to get a feel but I can not find the Credit Cards entries when creating bank Rules.
I am familiar with double entries, what the problem is when these payment could be allocated, the problem and what not but I see this not not a straight forward issue.

I suggest that a new field is added as bank accounts that would work as inter-account transfer based on bank rule i.e. repayment made to MBNA VISA from Main Bank are allocated as bank transfer.
There would be no need for clearing accounts and so on.

Until the feature is added I believe the credit cards should be treated as LOAN accounts for anyone who would want to use the bank import statement feature.

I am open to hear your views and alternative/suggestions.

Thank yoiu

There are several separate issues involved:

  • You cannot create bank rules to post to control accounts, except for Accounts receivable and Accounts payable. That is because, in general, Manager does not know in advance what the various subsidiary ledgers beneath a control account might be. Customers and suppliers for Accounts receivable and Accounts payable are the exceptions, because they are built in.
  • Credit card transactions can be imported as bank statements, but bank rules for them will be subject to the same limitation. Bank rules will be useful for allocating credit card charges to the correct expense accounts. But they will not be helpful for allocating outgoing payments for credit card statements, because credit cards are subsidiary ledgers.
  • Adding a feature to classify an imported transaction as an inter account transfer ignores the need to simultaneously account for the other half of the transaction. You cannot just take an outgoing payment of a credit card and say that’s the complete inter account transfer. You also need to have an incoming receipt for some other bank account, and that information is missing in an imported statement.
  • Setting up credit cards as loans instead of bank accounts would deprive you of several capabilities, most notably including (1) spending and receiving money via credit cards and (2) tracking pending transaction status. Following the procedure in the Guide you linked to for a custom control account lets you treat credit cards as liabilities while preserving all the desirable capabilities that go with bank accounts.
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You simply need to use a “clearing account” in the bank rule for those transactions - payments from the bank account and deposits to the credit card accounts - read this extract:

"If you want to use the imported statement entry for the inter bank/credit card transfers then you need to create a Bank Rule using a clearing account.

Bank/Credit Card Transfers are actually two separate accountings transactions not a single transaction.
1.Bank: Spend Money > Credit Bank and Debit ???
2.Credit Card: Receive Money > Debit Credit Card and Credit ???

The Inter Account Transfer feature in Manager allows you to truncate that to a single entry > Credit Bank Debit Credit Card

However, when importing bank/credit card statements and using Bank Rules, the processing of the two transactions is still required because (rightfully) Manager’s Bank Rules prevents any allocation directly to other Bank/Credit Card accounts otherwise you would have duplicate transactions as demonstrated below.

If you substituted the ??? for the opposing Bank/Credit Card account you would now have:
1.Bank: Spend Money > Credit Bank and Debit Credit Card
2.Credit Card: Receive Money > Debit Credit Card and Credit Bank

The Bank now has two credit entries and the Credit Card now has two debit entries - hence the duplication. So to use the import statement you just need the Bank Rule to post the opposing debit/credit entry to a clearing account, where the contra from the transaction will cancel themselves out.

1.Bank Spend Money > Credit Bank and Debit Clearing Account
2.Credit Card Receive Money > Debit Credit Card and Credit Clearing Account

The Clearing Account can be created as either a Current Asset or Current Liability"

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Do you have a working/step by step example?
thanks

Exactly my point at the moment the credit card account are only good if you don’t use the import bank feature.

The solution is;
I don’t know if I explained it clearly. the inter bank transfer feature can be added to bank rules window and double entries requirement can be satisfied there and then using the bank rule amount as the in/out amount paid/received from BANK to be allocated as transfer to/from credit card account.

You were very clear about what you want. Hopefully, @Brucanna and I were just as clear about why this cannot happen. First, you don’t have the transaction information for the receiving account in the statement from the paying account. You gave the reason in your opening post. You have 5 credit cards. How does Manager know which one to choose? Cash at bank or whatever other custom control account you have assigned a credit card to are control accounts. And bank rules cannot be defined for them. Perhaps in your case the descriptions of payments are specific enough to recognize which account. But for many bank statements, that will not be the case.

Second, unless you use a clearing account, you end up with duplicate entries.

If you have to manually intervene to either choose the account or delete duplicate transactions, isn’t it easier just to clone a previous payment, edit the date, and adjust the amount?

I am afraid I still was not clear enough. please read below for more explanation.

I agree, At the moment it does not show. Hence the suggestion I made as an IDEA and I think this is the I am very sorry trying to explain it the third time; here it goes again;

Lets first look at the current situations individually.

Importing Bank Transactions


Bank statement has been imported to suspense and it asking to allocated the transactions Directly by editing it or create a bank rule that follows simple IF/THEN statement.
choosing either option you can see that
-OUT Amounts are Bank Payments
+IN Amounts are Bank Receipts
Only available accounts to allocate these transactions are all but Cash/Bank accounts

In summary In this state all the transactions are stuck in the Suspense unless they are allocated individually either by directly editing them or use a bank rule. Both options works as the double entry leading to correct control accounts

Inter Accounts Transfer
transferf
Now this is pure double entry. explicitly transfer from one Cash account to the next one. not disturbing other control accounts. Not even the suspense account that is where the imported suspense entries ended up in Equity

Conclusion
Looking at both scenario the key thing are double entries and where it ends up.
I wonder why the Cash/Bank accounts are not part of accounts available to allocate the imported transaction.
-OUT Amounts are Bank Payments
+IN Amounts are Bank Receipts
It would result in same result as inter bank transfer AS it is transferring from the Imported Bank to MBNA credit card where you have been making payment for stuff and this transfer will just find its way not end up in suspense.

Now reading both Importing Bank Transaction you can see you have 2 options, bank rule or edit directly. If no bank rule can be set then at least it can be edited manually [To be taken out of Equity Suspense to Asset] i.e. to corresponding credit card account where it should be available as an option.

You won’t need clearing account and there would be no duplicate entries if you only import bank transactions regularly.

Yes you are right in the current state. because the bank accounts are not available when editing imported transactions or creating bank rule. However otherwise you will have to delete the imported bank transaction related to Credit card repayments. And this where all this problem lies.

I am sure @lubos can think over it and share his input as I think this an important but neglected feature. it will clear-up lots of confusion when importing bank statements.

If anything I missed/wrong about please do comment and explain it to me. Thank you

TOTALLY INCORRECT: The Inter Account Transfer feature in Manager allows you to truncate (two double entries) to a single entry.

What you have in reality is:
1 - Imported Nawest > Spend Money 252.67 with the Debit contra going ??
2 - MBNA Bank > Receive Money 252.67 with the Credit contra going ??

The Inter Account Transfer is in effect a combined Spend/Receive money without any contra’s.

Or put it this way, you can walk up to a bank teller and request that an Imported Nawest cheque be cashed for 252.67, an Imported Nawest Spend Money transaction. Now you can walk away with the 252.67 cash or you could ask a bank teller to deposit the 252.67 into the MBNA Bank, a MBNA Bank Receive Money Transaction.

Each of these transactions are independent transactions. Doing online banking transfers are exactly the same thing as doing bank teller transfers - two transactions.

For the exact reasons that have been explained to you three if not four times now. You just seem to be ignoring the facts being put in front of you.

Yes, as long as you only import the bank transactions, but if you are importing both the bank account and the credit card account transactions, then there is a definite need for the clearing account otherwise you will definitely have duplicate entries.

Manager can’t possibly know if the user is only importing bank transactions or both bank and credit card transactions.

If you read the multiple topics on this subject you will note that lubos has frequently advised on the usage of clearing account process, which he himself uses.

Read the above s l o w l y.

You have just nullified your own statement by using the word “truncate”. You need to start reading your books again. I don’t know if I credit you or debit you.

I am sorry but I guess it is too much for you to understand :slight_smile:

This is the only valid point you have made so far.

There was no need to for that.

I feel sorry for you to understand the problem but I won’t waste my time any further to elaborate to receive more rudeness from you.