Create purchase invoice from bank transaction

That’s in the ideas list and hopefully will be added at some stage

Hi Joris,

This is poor accounting practice. Purchase invoices are registered when actually received.

There is no need for bank transactions and it’s purchase invoice to be in the same quarter. The first concerns your balance, the second your P&L.

Your VAT concerns only your P&L in this case only your purchase invoice.

I’m sorry, but your idea is in my opinion not a valid use case.

I don’t see how it’s anything different from booking things on the bank tx. The shipping charges is totally irrelevant as an example, because you face the same ‘problems’ in both banktx as purchase invoice.

My question is also not about taxfilings or whatever. It’s a convenient way to create a purchase invoice. Just like there’s a convenient way to create a credit-note from an invoice, etc etc etc.

If I see TX1, and need to create a purchase invoice for it, it’s cumbersome to click, create it, copy info, go back, find the right tx, and post it on the creditors->xxxxxx->invoice

Well sure, in the “perfect” world, you’d add every invoice, receipt separately etc. In that case simply remove the possibility to book banktransactions to any P/L account. Because it’s “bad accounting”.

In practice it works differently. You pay something, get the invoice at a later stage. Sometimes it works the other way.

One day you directly book the bank tx to an account. Another day you register the invoice.

The VAT was just an example of the fields available that should be copied / moved.

Sorry but I do not understand why any seller would provide an invoice after receiving your payment? They should only give you a receipt because there is no lag in payment period involved (credit period).

With direct debit (or credit cards), it’s very common to have the money deducted before receiving an invoice

No problem! Understand that the invoice has more details than a receipt and thus better for record purposes also.

By this are you actually wanting the supplier reports to include the “cash” purchases?

If so the intention is Manager should do what you are describing completely automatically. Or at least that is the intention of the idea linked above.

I don’t have a problem with this but if payment is created by importing bank statement, then wouldn’t this be better to be concieved in payment rules?

In other words, payment rule could create purchase invoice and link it up with the actual payment.

That’s an idea from left field.

I can see functionally eliminating “cash” transactions and replacing them with quick invoice payment/receipt pair may make the program perspective more consistent however I’m less sure about

  • Increased user complexity distributing a single user entry over 2 tabs / data entry location

  • updating historical records to take advantage of reporting associated with the new data entry model.

To follow my interpretation of this idea through

  • Bank rules could have a create invoice option which would 1) create an invoice based on the bank rules 2) Link the payment/receipt to Accounts receivable/payable → Customer/Supplier → invoice number

  • Cash sales/purchases could be done from the invoice tab by adding an option for “Cash” Sale/Purchase enabling selection of a bank account and resulting in generation of a payment/receipt to Accounts receivable/payable → Customer/Supplier → invoice number

  • A “Move to invoice” option analogous to the existing “Copy to” menus could be used to convert payments/receipts entered the old way (resulting in creation of an invoice and linking the receipt/payment to it). I suspect is the button @joris_manager would really like with the current program design.

Overall this sounds like a major change in Managers user interface. It may work well but I worry it is more complex than just showing current “Cash” transactions in customer/supplier reports.

I think the discussion has gone astray. @joris_manager did not mention bank statement imports. He just wants to copy a transaction.

While I do not think that makes for good practice, that is mostly because of the complexity it introduces when transactions involve multiple lines and accounts. But all this other discussion sounds worse, that is, even more complex.

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Does it matter how the bank transaction was originated.
I think @lubos is right on the money with his suggestion with regards to bank statement imports. For the direct entries, you just need a “Create Invoice” button.

To be clear, this would be for imported bank statements (but of course could be used for cash transactions/manual entries too). Maybe it’s more clear if the functionality is not called “convert to purchase invoice”, but to “Create Purchase Invoice for this Transaction”.

I agree it could work.
For it to work well it would need to result in a consistent user interface for a range of transactions.
In the past, cash and invoiced transactions have had different support for

@Brucanna, @lmns @vez @busy and others who regularly do these type of transactions, how do you think Manager should optimally support these types of transactions if invoices were uniformly used. In particular

  • Invoices typically must provide specific legal identification of the parties involved in the transaction.

  • In private transactions there are typically two parties however in trading groups or agent transactions more parties can be involved in a transaction.

  • In your opinion, how many is typically required and how many is sometimes required, or to put the question another way, how many should Manager be optimised to support and how many should it be able to accommodate.

And how would this requirement be integrated into a user interface which is both efficient for the more common arrangement (Sale only invoice, Purchase only invoice) but allows for these more advanced transactions. Do we need an new “Other Invoice” type?

I don’t think it will work for my situation as a single bank transaction results in both a sales invoice and a purchase invoice in manager. This is because of the issues highlighted in the past, whereby line item on a sales invoice against an expense account (with a negative value) does not result in a purchase for BAS reporting purposes.

In other accounting packages, BAS statements are calculated based on invoice line items (not invoice totals). A line item against an expense account shows up within G10 or G11 (the purchases section) on the BAS form.

So how would you need Manager to behave, for you to be able to generate an invoice(s) for your business process?

I would need line items on a payment (or sales invoice) that are posted to an expense account to reflect as an expense in the Business Activity Statement report. This has been discussed in the past and it was not possible. This was because when Manager generated the report it was tallying the total values for an invoice and was not processing items on a line by line basis. If this has changed, then maybe it can be resolved. Otherwise, we are stuck.

Is your requirement still of this type Negative invoiced amounts missing from GST (tax) reports

  • That looks like a Barter transaction between two parties which includes a monetary component.

  • Or do you fairly frequently use transactions with more parties documented on the invoice?

Yes, it’s the same requirement. Works fine in Xero, but requires both a sales invoice and purchase invoice in Manager.

Sorry to be late with my response.

I already understood that the way we work is somewhat different from the typical company and our needs may not be in line with best bookkeeping practices. Still, I wanted to answer on the practical situation we sometimes get into.

We have a construction where several consultants work on different projects across different countries. Sometimes we already invoice amongst the partners, while clients have not yet received or settled invoices. We also work with organisations where services are bartered and “real” payments sometimes do not take place. Within the EU, we have reversed VAT charge and ICP requirements with the tax authorities. We are often on-site with clients, or at conferences for presentations and workshops. All of these activities are labeled as projects, and are connected to a client. One of my earlier questions was about the barter deal, where VAT/ICP entries get lost when one would credit, while the activity and the value would still exist.

@joris_manager mentions the common issue of having paid something with credit card or direct debit, where the invoice comes after a receipt/confirmation: wanting to create a purchase invoice for that transaction after the fact, based on a bank statement, but connected to a project or activity makes a lot of sense. We simply don’t always have the choice to follow what is the logical way in sequence.

We are now using Manager mostly as sales invoice only solution. We stopped creating purchase invoices to match after the fact of a transaction in Manager. We are looking into a full switch to another solution, where we import bank transactions and connect them with “virtual” purchase invoices after the fact just before the closing of the quarterly tax reports.

@Tut is right about the complexity. When it concerns products and services and shipments and different taxations, it can be messy. In our case, it is mostly our services being invoiced and cash payments for licenses/products and on-site payments (travel/stay).

@Patch seems to exactly describe the process. And yes, this would be quite the change.