Basic banking/accounting question

Currently i use a “cash box” account in QB, which cash and check payments are made into. from there when i import bank statements the ATM deposits withdrawn from the cash box account. whatever is leftover in cashbox would become owners draw at the end of the year. this is done only because it makes less math and keeping track. whatever is not accounted for is my pay. I’m a sole prop.

I see after downloading a bank statement that you cannot select a “transfer” from another bank account or cash on hand account. how would i go about this other than the transfer function then deleting the bank imported transaction.

also this may be a bug, but the arrow keys don’t work in the item search box in an invoice but it works elsewhere in the program. no big deal. :wink:

sorry for the barrage of questions just excited to implement this. About time someone makes good business software for linux.

When importing bank statements, they are either imported as Spend money or Receive money transactions.

There is no mechanism to convert receipt/payment into transfer money transaction… to be honest, I don’t like Transfer money transaction type and thinking to incorporate it somehow into Receive money, Spend money forms.

For the time being, you have two options… delete imported transaction and create Transfer money transaction or setup a bank rule so all those transfers will be categorized into special Inter-account transfers account.

Then once a year make a journal entry which will offset Inter-account transfers account with your Cash box account so Inter-account transfers will be zero and whatever is left in Cash box would be transferred to your drawings so Cash box ends up with zero balance too.

So if I understand correctly;

Receive payments -> cash box

Transfer asset account -> bank

Occasional Journal entry: cash box -> transfer asset account?

It seems the spend money function within the cash account would be the only way too pay back the transfer asset account. That works though. Thank you. If I understand this wrong let me know :wink:

I don’t believe you are understanding @lubos’s comments correctly, @James_Warner.

The feature of Manager that is causing you trouble is that imported bank transactions cannot be recorded as a transfer between bank or cash accounts (because they are not). So he gave you two options:

  1. Import the bank statement to record all other transactions, but delete the transfer. Then enter it as a normal Transfer Money action. You seem to have recognized this possibility yourself, based on your first post.

  2. Create a new account, Inter-account transfers, to which you will be able to allocate the imported transaction. Then use a journal entry periodically to “empty” that temporary account, moving it wherever you want it to go.

You should not use the Spend Money function to pay back Inter-account transfers. Receive Money and Spend Money are only for transactions where money actually enters or leaves the business, not for when you move it into a different account.

I’ll offer a third option. Since you seem to be making most of your transactions to/from a cash box, consider not importing statements at all. Periodically, I imagine you count up what is in the cash box and make deposits or withdrawals to the bank account. Just record those as bank transactions, not every sale or return. Some retail merchants use a daily summary, depending on what they have for a cash register or point of sale system.

The import function seems most useful, in my opinion, for those with hundreds of transactions per month, often internet merchants. Based on what you’ve said about your business so far, I believe things could be simpler for you.

OK I guess it’s the inter-account transfers that I’m not understanding. This new account, is it a bank account? Or income/expense/asset? If it’s bank account, that was the point of the cash box account. Artificial to keep track of money I skim(basically making my jeans pocket an account that keeps track of the difference in income and income deposited in à financial institution). I use cash box only as a way to cover sloppy deposits. Myself or my fiance will often steal cash for this or that, basically early pay checks. It avoided me having to deal with quickbooks undeposited funds account which wants tidy deposits directly linked to a received invoice payment. Credit card payments this is not an issue. Those match perfectly. I’m open to all options on how to handle this, the cash box account in qb was just the easiest solution for that circumstance. Just trying to keep the accounting load light.

I have a few accounts at my bank that do have money transferred between them at times, as it currently stands I would not be able to make rules for those transactions either. I think @lubos idea to just incorporate transfer in the pay/receive would be sufficient. Being able to select a bank account in addition to the normal category accounts or whatever the term is.

Definitely not a bank account. It is a temporary account meant only as a holding location for processing imported transactions. Set it up as an asset account.

This is why I don’t like importing bank statements. Your balance as shown in Manager is always behind, sometimes up to a month, and there always seem to be issues to sort out. But I also don’t have a lot of bank transactions, seldom more than 2-3 in a week, because of the nature of my business.

You can create a cash on hand account in Manager to operate exactly the same way. No one is ever going to audit it, and whether you keep the cash in a vault or your jeans pocket, it’s the same thing from an accounting perspective.

Cool thank you.

You are seeing the Bank Transfer as a single transaction where in fact it is two separate transactions.
If A is your Bank account and B is your Cash Box then you have

  1. Receive Money - Debit account A and Credit account B
  2. Spend Money - Credit account B and Debit account A

Account A has two Debits and account B has two Credits - Bank Transfer in Manager eliminates this duplication. So to use Import Bank Statement you need to put the extra Debit/Credit into a clearing account so that the accounts A & B only get one entry and the clearing account gets the 2nd entry which will contra themselves out.

  1. Receive Money - Debit account A and Credit Clearing Account
  2. Spend Money - Credit account B and Debit Clearing Account

Yes you can, just make the rule - post the transfer to the Clearing Account

As an internal control mechanism you could create two clearing accounts.

  1. Cash Box Clearing - which would accumulate those transfers and provide a year end total
  2. Bank Clearing - after all monthly processing this account should equal zero - if not, then it would be easier to reconcile without Cash Box Transfers

@James_Warner, this is all getting very complex, mostly because people are trying to help without being able to see your actual chart of accounts or typical transactions. I suggest you spend a little to consult an accountant about a rational way to arrange your chart of accounts and develop an accounting workflow to accomplish what you want. There is no question it can be done. I just don’t think I or anyone else completely understands what you need.

Once you’ve got a good chart of accounts and workflow designed, Manager can handle things. You don’t have to be complex, but you should follow fundamental accounting principles, because Manager does. While it might cost a little bit up front, the work and hassles you will avoid will be worth it in the long run. And you’ll keep the tax man happy.

Transfer Money is one of the really good features of Manager and to lose it as it currently functions would a negative. Transfer Money only runs into a problem with those who import their bank statements and apply incorrect bank rules.

Can I suggest that providing clearer information in the Importing Bank Statement and/or Bank Rule sections of the Guides would be far simpler then re-engineering perfectly functioning program code. To assist in keeping the current feature I could volunteer to “draft” such information.

This way Manager could de-mystify the complexities of this typical transaction when applying bank rules.

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I concur. Moving money between bank and cash accounts is a common event. It seems counter-intuitive to merge the function with spending and receiving, which are now clearly interactions with the outside world. Moreover, the ability to have transfers in the uncleared columns is important, since sometimes transfers happen between banks and funds are not instantly available.

OK so on my manager set up I have a “cash on hand” account named “undeposited funds”. I made an asset account “inter-account transfers”.

When bank statements are imported there is no option to select cash or bank accounts, so “assets:inter-account transfers” is used.

This makes a negative asset account. At the end of each month money is moved from cash:undeposited funds to asset:inter-account transfers to 0 the account. Leftover money in the cash account becomes owners draw.

I said I have to use the spend money button in the cash account section because there is no way to move money between “profit loss statement/balance sheet” and “cash/bank accounts” other than spend money or receive money function. This may not be perfect accounting but it should work correct?

I don’t know any other way to do it because I cannot receive payment into an asset account. Manager has much tighter rules than qb on when and where you can move money around. I understand the reasoning though. Open the ruleset to much and your doing nothing but fixing broken chart of accounts of first year business owners lol.

Things sound conceptually right as far as use of Manager. But I am a little vague about what transactions you are importing with your bank statements. I thought the whole point of using the cash account was to avoid making bank transactions. If deposits are already in the bank, why the inter-account transfer account? It isn’t your actions with Manager I’m questioning, which seem to be correct, but the workflow in general.

If it helps, make the inter-account transfers a liability account - as its a clearing account it doesn’t matter if its asset or liability as it always ends up as zero. Just to illustrate the process these are the key entries.

  1. Receiving cash
    Un-deposited Funds - Receive Money, Line Entry Cash Sales or other appropriate account
  2. Transfer cash out
    Un-deposited Funds - Spend Money, Line entry Inter-account Transfers
  3. Receiving Deposit
    Bank Account - Receive Money, Line entry Inter-account Transfers

Use (3) for the Bank Rule

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@tut " If deposits are already in the bank, why the inter-account transfer account? It isn’t your actions with Manager I’m questioning, which seem to be correct, but the workflow in general."

its because if we get paid 143.24 in cash, only 120 may make it to my account. when i recieve payment on an invoice, manager wants me to put it in an account right away before decisions are made on where the money is going. its the way i’ve done it for a while now and its worked.

Therefore, your treatment via the Un-deposited Funds is entirely appropriate as this allows for those decisions to be made later. The Manager tighter process is probably cleaner in that it keeps the initial receipt intact as one transaction, compared to doing split receipting.

If you put the entire 134.24 into the cash account when the invoice is paid, you don’t have to make that decision until later. It is there, and you can take all, part, or none of it to the bank some day. And anything you don’t take to the bank, you can spend. And while an accountant would cringe, you can do exactly what you already said you do, that is, wait until the end of the month or year and enter a draw for anything that isn’t in the cash box. That deprives you of checks and balances and interim knowledge of your position, but it will balance the books.