Reverse charge question

I am very sorry but I prefer to stay anonymous, the country is small and as I post certain tables with amounts in them I really prefer it to be this way.

Regarding this:

Most countries use only one VAT code for “normal” purchases and sales.
Accounting wise they are collected together into the one Tax Payable account (Black & Red).
However, in the background Manager keeps a variety of separate purchase & sales totals based on the tax codes used so that they can be entered on to the various reports correctly.

Custom tax codes are limited to how they can be used compared to the in-built (downloaded) ones.

As I moved the accounts from Xero, I was trying to keep the kind of structure you see on this page(but not for UK):
https://central.xero.com/s/article/Default-tax-rates-UK

When you have “Name/Tax Rate Display Name” “Tax Type” “Tax Rate”
I was expecting to have a “tax type” in manager that would show up on my side of the software but not on the invoices, receipts. I know Sage and the others do that to, not having this feature makes it very hard for us as we had to add all the tax codes in the tax name box(which shows all over the invoices/receipts). I tried custom box but it is not right either as it does not change according to the selected tax, you have to change it independently from the tax name you select.
As we need to fill in MOSS returns and recapitulative statements, it is very difficult to keep track of the various taxes without a tax type and tax type report. Tax type can help you understand with a short descript what this tax is about before adding it to the invoices/receipts. A small feature but so important.

Which is similar to the UK Manager localisation except separated codes for sales and purchases are not required as Manager tracks these separately for all it’s tax codes
Reverse%20charge%2001%20UK%20tax

In contrast the Netherlands uses more tax codes as they use multiple VAT rates for local transactions

Again, because the amounts and balances all happen to be negative. But you have not explained what your screen shot shows. I have little doubt it is correct, but if you do not tell us what it is, no one can explain why the numbers are negative. Also show a screen shot of the Edit screen for one of the transactions involved.

Any balances you see negative are sales with the normal V.A.T tax rate(No RCM).
I just clicked on one of the sales for you to see:

The example you show me here is exactly the problem I am having.
In your custom tax you have for example:
“VAT 20% on imports”

Why this shows on the invoice rather than:
“VAT 20%”

It would have been great to have a new box in manager.io with:

TAX | DESCRIPTION(does not show on paper)
VAT 20% | on imports

@benoit, you did not provide the most important information I requested: a description of what you screen shot shows. I reiterate that no help is possible until you describe what you are showing. And you must show the entire Edit screen so we can see all details of the transaction. Obscure only proprietary information.

Also, do I correctly interpret that you have created a line-item custom field called “Reverse Charge?” If so, why? What do you hope this will accomplish? How will you use it?

Sorry about that, let me restart from fresh screenshot by screenshot.

Number 1:
When Click on this button:

I end up here. When I click on the 16 transactions on this line(which are sale invoices).
manager3

I see this:
manager4

As you can see all the transactions in this table have the same tax(which is not RCM) and they are either sales invoices or receipts.

Now Let’s look at the tax that I have chosen on this table(the one pointing top the red arrow).
As you can see in the below image, nowhere it shows the tax as RCM. The “tax type” custom field is just me messing around as I was trying to hide the data between parenthesis in the Name but it won’t work as I won’t see it on the reports.
manager5

Also here is an example of one of the sales invoice so you see how it is entered(below it becomes negative in the above table), the invoice 11119:

So, now I have given all the information, let me reply to your questions about:
Also, do I correctly interpret that you have created a line-item custom field called “Reverse Charge?” If so, why? What do you hope this will accomplish? How will you use it?

The reason I did that is because in the country where I live, the word “Reverse charge” most show in the invoice. I could not find a better way of doing it sorry. All I do is enable that box and write “Reverse charge” inside it.

The second question is:
We understand 100% your explanations of the transactions being negative when RCM is added to the customs tax and the tax used on Sales(we understand this perfectly now). But in the above examples, the tax is not RCM(customer, single rate, 18%) but still output all our sales as negative in the custom tax table. Unless both my wife and I missed something, we cannot understand the logic behind this sorry. And my apology if there is something very big we have missed or misunderstood in your previous explanations. We tried to show this to some of our friends but none of us understands it.

Thank you.

Thank you for the complete information. I have several responses:

  • The amounts in the drill-down on the number of tax code transactions are negative because they are credits. Manager’s convention is that debits are positive and credits are negative. (This is a choice made by the designer of the software. It could have been the other way around.) If you drill down on Tax payable in the Summary, you will see the related tax amounts as positive numbers. That is a matter of how they are displayed. As with many aspects of accounting, there is the underlying math, and then there are the conventions about how things are displayed. For example, both income and expenses are frequently shown as positive numbers to reduce clutter. Context is important.
  • In the future, there are easier and more intuitive places to see tax amounts and balances than going back into the Settings tab.
  • I do not recommend using custom tax codes in your situation. Use those available from localizations. These will be easier to update in the future, and they will used in future report transformations for your country.
  • I would recommend putting your statutory RCM notation in a notes custom field rather than a line-item custom field. As I understand it, that requirement will always apply to an entire invoice, not a single line item. And that way, you won’t see the column on domestic transaction forms.

Hi Tut,

We cannot thank you enough.
This is what we had in mind, that the software itself was doing this as part of its structure.

About this:
*** I do not recommend using custom tax codes in your situation. Use those available from localizations. These will be easier to update in the future, and they will used in future report transformations for your country.**

We cannot work out how to do it any other way as we need to see all the different taxes in the reports for the MOSS and recapitulative statements which are sometimes difficult due to many micro transactions.

I would love to be able to use 1 tax code for all but it is not possible. I need to know in which box specific taxe codes go ie:
There is 18% for services but also 18% for products and in the V.A.T report, both need to be inputted separately. If I enter them as “18%” altogether, I won’t be able to work out which is which.

About this:
*** I would recommend putting your statutory RCM notation in a notes custom field rather than a line-item custom field. As I understand it, that requirement will always apply to an entire invoice, not a single line item. And that way, you won’t see the column on domestic transaction forms.**

Thank you, you are right, I will change this right now.

To fill out your tax filings, you may need to delve into the Tax Transactions report. And your country may eventually need two separate 18% tax codes in its localizations. (Netherlands has similar situations.) But all that takes some documentation, as well as someone willing to modify the localizations. The developer does not keep up with 200+ sovereign jurisdictions on his own.

I understand Tut. I am a dev myself and know how difficult this would be to keep up with such complex data change.

Thanks again for your great help.