Billable time module vs balance / customers tab

I am using the billable time module to record my time spend on jobs for my clients.
My’s main valuta is GBP but I invoice in EUR. There is no fault with exchange rates as I removed them because the billable expense balance didn’t want to go to zero, as discussed in a previous topic.

As such I have recorded circa EUR 3.250 in billable time of which circa EUR 70 has not been invoiced (the rest has been).
This amount is the same on the customers tab, yet on the balance the billable time is listed as GBP 465,94, but should be GBP 62,92

When I look at the report for billable time I get the specification for the GBP 465,94.
For all clients I have closing balances. For some it is correct as there are new hours of november, for other there are no more hours to be billed and should be zero but the problem is similar for all clients.
For the smallest client I have an Addition of £ 17,48, a less for Invoiced of £ 17,49 (small calculation error in the program apparantly), Adjustments for £ 1,77 and a closing balance of £ 1,76.
The adjustment can be seen on the balance as a billable time adjustment / write-on, although I made no adjustments in the invoice. (Select times to invoice and print invoice, no editing of the invoice.)

Why is the amount of the billable time on the balance not the same as on billable time or customers tabs?
How do I correct this?

Can you please do two things, as some of your explanation is confusing:

  1. Restate your problem using the terminology actually used in the program? Your use of valuta, specification, closing balance, Addition, less for Invoiced, and Adjustments is not clear.
  2. Show a screen shot of what you are referring to.

Meanwhile, the small differences you are seeing could be related to time conversion, since billable time is entered in hours and minutes, but converted to decimal form for calculation, then rounded to match currency and display preferences.

You could also be having problems from your decimal and thousands delimiters. Check your number format preferences.

You say you have no fault with exchange rates because you removed them. But if you are entering time in GBP and invoicing in Euros, you can’t remove them.

Hereby I show some screenshots of what I am referring to.

The Summary and Billable Time Report both show £ 465,94
The Customers and Billable Time tabs show € 72,78

With a used exchange rate of 1 GBP is 1,1120 EUR the amount I actually still have to bill out would be € 72,78 / 1,1120 = £ 65,45.

The hourly rate with the billable time module I is the same as I use to invoice the clients.
All my clients are EUR based, I just happen to live in the UK so I need to report in GBP’s.

Below are screenshots of the part I wrote about (a bit anonimised).

From the Summary:
The balance is listed as £ 465,94, the same is listed in the Income.

From the Customers:
Uninvoiced amount is € 72,78 ; that is £ 65,45

From the Billable Time module:
The uninvoiced billable time is € 72,78 ; that is £ 65,45

From the report of the billable time:
The amount is listed as £ 465,94

My Number Format:

Your screen shots were helpful in understanding what you were referring to. The numbers don’t lie, @Lucas. There are obvious places start:

  1. You say Customers and Billable time agree at €72,78. They don’t. Uninvoiced balance in Customers tab is €258,36. The difference may be due to the number you have obscured with your “=expenses” annotation. I interpret that to mean that amount is not billable time and should not enter into the calculations. But even neglecting that number, your Billable Time screen shot does not show the total, so I don’t know whether you have equivalency or not. Check that to make sure.

  2. You list 7 customers in the Customers tab, with uninvoiced time for 3, 5, and 6. But your Billable Time report references Customer 8 and shows closing balances (which correlate to uninvoiced time) for 2, 3, 5, 6, and 8. What is going on there? You say Company 8 should be zero, but then where did those numbers come from? More to the point, where did Customer 8 come from at all?

  3. Unless you bill for more or less than the billable time entries, there should be nothing in the Adjustments column on the Billable Time report.

  4. Here is the big one. Your Billable Time report shows 2.279,66 has been invoiced. But your P&L shows zero in the Billable time - invoiced account. Where are you posting the invoiced amounts to?

  5. Click on the Billable time balance in the Summary that you think is wrong to drill down and see what’s contributing.

  6. Manager is clearly using different exchange rates than you mentioned. How did you enter your exchange rate?

  1. That was a hidden expense “messing up” the total Uninvoiced amount. I also have a lot more hours but I didn’t want to show the invoiced hours (being a big screenshot).

  2. Company 8 should have been 7. Typo’s sigh. I could understand that a closing balance would have an amount if there is something not Invoiced but for 2 and 7 everything has been invoiced and should be zero.

  3. I Invoiced according to the hours. For Company 7 I entered my billable time as a total amount coming from their time-recording program. So I entered all the hours and immediately invoiced those (66,67 + 34,33) hours. The total should always be zero in this case.

  4. That’s because I erased the number.

  5. Company 6 has 1 hours for € 50 =, invoice for € 50. Billable time £ 40,41. Invoiced for £ 32,66.

  6. Like this:

And as I type this down I see something really stupid. Is the program now depositing the € 50 on the billable time sheet debet as £ 40,41 using an exchange rate of 1 GBP = 1,2373 EUR and then listing the invoiced amount as £ 32,66 because it converts the £ 40,41 from GBP to GBP using the GBP to EUR exchange rate? (£ 40,41 / £ 32,66 = 1.2373…)

I believe you have found your problem. In your very first post, you said, “there is no fault with exchange rates as I removed them.” I assumed that meant you were doing your own conversions to GBP outside of Manager so Manager was only dealing with one currency. Then you showed screen shots that were clearly in two, so I had my suspicions. My question #6 was meant to lead you towards this realization. Better that you found this on your own, as you’ll be more aware of Manager’s inner workings. So go back and fix those problems and see if anything is left.

By the way, I recommend a test business where you can play games to see what affects what. It’s very difficult to troubleshoot someone else’s accounts when you don’t have access to everything. But with a test business, you can fool around without fear of damaging your real records.

I didn’t do conversions outside the program, but as suggested I made a new and clean test administration as attached way below.

I made 2 different currencies. GBP and EUR. I set up 2 exchange rates of 1 GBP = 1,125 or 1,25 EUR.
I now made billable time and billable expenses in GBP and EUR .
All time and expenses have been separately invoiced (3 expenses + 3 times = 6 invoices total).
I believe you could recreate the following in a new test administration later on your own system to independently conclude recreate it.

First some screenshots and then the error in the program explained in detail.

Exchange rates used

Billable times

Billable expenses


Sales invoices

All of these amounts are easy to follow and are as you would expect and we should conclude that everything has been invoiced out at the correct amounts.

Now lets take a look at the balance:

There seem to be values left on the billable expenses and billable times.

Billable expenses

GBP expenses has been invoiced at the correct amount.
The EUR expense 2 has the same amounts as well and have the same date.
EUR expense 1 has a different date.
The amount on 01/11/2016 was € 20 recorded as spent; or divided by the exchange rate of 1,125 total £ 17,78
The amount on 03/11/2016 was € 20;recorded on the invoice or divided by the exchange rate of 1,25 total £ 16,00
The is a difference that is not being adjusted for £ 1,78. that should’ve been recorded as a write-on/off

Billable time

GBP time has been invoiced at the correct amount.
The EUR time 1 has the same date but different amount on the invoice. £ 80 was written down as billable time (€ 100 / 1.25) but £ 64 is being invoiced. Or € 100 / 1.25 / 1.25 = £ 64> and uses twice the exchange rate of that day
There is a same day difference appearing that is not being adjusted for £ 16,00.
The EUR time 2 has the different date and different amount on the invoice. £ 84,44 was written down as billable time (€ 95 / 1.125) but £ 60,80 is being invoiced with a write of for £ 6,75, so the total would come down to £ 67,55 as recorded to be invoiced by the program, leaving a gap of £ 16,89. The same calculation error applies> £ 84,44 / 1.25 = £ 67,55.
The £ 67,55 is calculated by € 95 / 1.1125 / 1.25 and uses 2 different exchange rates because 2 days are referenced.
The £ 60,80 is calculated by € 95 / 1.25 / 1.25 and has the same problem as EUR time 1
The adjustment error amounts to ( € 95 - € 95 / 1.25 ) / 1.125 = £ 16.89
There is a different day difference appearing that is not being adjusted for £ 16,89.

I guess that we should conclude that recorded invoiced out amounts are recorded wrong.
The write-on or write-off adjustments should be valued as “amount of recorded foreign amount / exchange rate of that day MINUS amount of invoiced foreign amount / exchange rate of that day”
As an example the recorded time of € 95 would be on the balance at an exchange rate of 1.125 thus £ 84,44 and the invoiced amount as € 95 / 1.25 as £ 76 leaving a write-on/off for £ 8.44 as a foreign exchange difference on the P&L.

If you concur with my conclusion and solution how do we flag the developers?

And just for fun: remove the exchange date of 03/11/2016.
Billable expenses in the balance changes to zero
Billable time in the balance changes to £ 19,26 >> € 195 / 1.125 is debited but € 195 / 1.125 / 1.125 is credited

test (2016-11-03).manager (2.4 KB)

I am sorry, but I don’t have time to dig through all this.

No problem. Thanks for the support so far!

@lubos If I am correct in thinking you are a developer (or closely related) could you check the way the billable time and expenses are calculated on balance when foreign currencies are used? I wrote an explanation of what I think is going wrong above.

@Lucas, so the issue essentially is that even if all billable expenses and billable time is invoiced (or written-off), the balance sheet still shows balance for billable expenses and billable time even though it should be zero.

This is what I see in your test file which is definitely a bug. I just want to confirm this is what you are referring to.

@lubos That was my problem at first but when digging into the way the program works I believe that the method used for currencies is not correct.

– and now I hope I can make some sense below but the upper explanation with numbers may be easier to follow –

For the billable expenses
It seems the program doesn’t activate the write-on/off or foreign exchange module? And that’s why a balance value remains. (In this case: foreign exchange of £ 1.78)

Off course the write-on/off is the debet versus credit foreign amount difference divided by the exchange rate
ie in a new example: € 100 debet versus € 95 credit = write-off of € 5 or £ xxx on credit-date; and then the used dates lead to a remaining foreign exchange difference

As an example for time 1
When recording the time it seems you use:

Show on balance: {foreign amount divided by exchange rate}
( € 100 becomes £ 80 ) <- correct

When invoicing: {use amount on balance as foreign amount and divide this by the exchange rate for the invoice}
( instead of using € 100 as the base amount for the invoice the program uses £ 80 as if it’s the € 100 value but thinks the 80 is a foreign amount and thinks it needs to be converted to £ 64 on balance.

This leads to a debet € 100 = £ 80 and credit € 100 = £ 64.

I guess that when you invoice you refer to “balance value” instead of “foreign value” before you activate some “if valuta is not base currency then…”

The time 2 problem is in basic probably a combination of the above because it uses different dates The example foreign exchange amount should be € 95 / 1.1125 = £ 84.44 versus € 95 / 1.25 = £ 76 >> £ 8.44

If it doesn’t make any sense…
I’m sorry :sweat:

I can see the issue and it’s definitely a bug. Working on it.

Hi, does this issue fixed and how can update in Desktop Version. Thanks