Added "Starting Balances" section under "Settings" (again)

[lubos]

It might seem like we’ve come full circle but the latest version (24.10.23) is adding Starting Balances section under Settings.

I know there have been quite a few iretations of this concept in Manager over the years but I never felt like I’ve nailed it. There were always issues. So based on what I’ve learned, observed and what I need for the future (e.g. upcoming purge function to delete historical transactions), I came up with new model to establish starting balances.

Under Settings tab, there is new section named Starting Balances.

Clicking on it, you will see sections which allow you to establish starting balances for each module (based on what tabs you have enabled).

Now, each module have its specifics. For example, when creating starting balances for bank and cash accounts, you will see this form:

For fixed assets, you will see:

For investments, you will see:

And for inventory items, you will see:

Inventory item starting balance form looks like that because we need to know starting balance as per physical count, but also we need to know items that have been purchased but not yet received by supplier, then items sold, but not yet delivered to customers. That’s how we obtain Qty owned for accounting purposes.

Now, nothing stopping you from establishing starting balances using journal entries if you prefer. That’s fine. But I think this approach is more user-friendly.

Also, as I said, Manager will utilize this feature internally when you use upcoming purging function. For example, if you have more than 5 years worth of data in your accounting file and you want to purge all transactions that are older than 5 years, Manager will delete them and re-establish starting balances within Starting Balances module.

[Manager_User]

@lubos Do we need to add “Starting Balances” to existing Business?

@lubos

older than 5 years

It would be nice to set a different length of time.
The reason is that in the US we have to keep records for 7 years in certain cases.
Here is the link to the IRS article on it.

@lubos

Manager will delete them

Also could you include a confirmation notice, in case of accidental presses.
As I can see people asking for these things, should this be added.

[lubos]

@Manager_User

Do we need to add “Starting Balances” to existing Business?

No, this is only when setting up new business on Manager or when purging historical data, Manager will autofill starting balances.

@Manager_User

It would be nice to set a different length of time.

5 years was just an example, you will be able to purge as of any date.

@Manager_User

Also could you include a confirmation notice, in case of accidental presses.

This is already handled by History. You will be able “undo” purging just like anything else.

[Manager_User]

Ok thanks just wanted to check and make sure.

[Mabaega]

@lubos

This is already handled by History. You will be able “undo” purging just like anything else.

When purging can be restored from history, it means that the transaction data is still in the database and can be restored.

In my opinion, purging should delete transaction data and its history from the database.

The reasons I need purging:

• The database size does not continue to grow, and the application can run more responsively.
• Business data can be split year by year to meet data requests by 3rd parties such as Auditors or Tax Authorities who always ask for a copy of data according to the year being audited.

Purging should not be able to be restored, but we must ensure that the user makes a backup before purging.

[lubos]

@Mabaega after purging, you can make a backup without History. That will remove all the trace of what was in the database before purging.

[Burhania]

This is a good news, how ever, I see that the starting balances date ( as of date ) is important to be included in this feature when Balancesheet accounts ( Assets, liabilities and Capital) to be set.
Thanks @lubos for your tireless efforts.

[tony]

@Burhania Starting Balances always appear as the first entry. I expect that if they include dates and the dates are inconsistent it may prevent the general ledger from balancing correctly.

[Burhania]

@tony , the “first entry” can’t be defined by accountants - there should be “as of date”. Can you remember your first entry by generating your first balance sheet with out specific date?

[tony]

I see your point. Perhaps a universal starting date can be set under the new feature and that date must be earlier than the date of all other transactions. I am not sure if this will work when you are required to create and select starting sales and purchase invoices as part of the Customer and Supplier starting balances.

[shahabb]

@lubos starting balance results in an unbalanced transaction.

Also, one other thing i have noticed that starting balance now let you set debit balance for customers (which previously we had to do through Invoices), is this a bug or its possible now to do so?
Same issue is on Suppliers side too.

[Ealfardan]

@tony

Perhaps a universal starting date can be set under the new feature and that date must be earlier than the date of all other transactions.

I agree with you on this, starting data is an essential descriptive piece of accounting information, otherwise, the reports will look like this:

@shahabb

There’s no way of telling when was this 100 balance without rummaging through tabs or relying on memory to remember the purge date.

[lubos]

@shahabb

Also, one other thing i have noticed that starting balance now let you set debit balance for customers (which previously we had to do through Invoices), is this a bug or its possible now to do so?
Same issue is on Suppliers side too.

I think having Customers and Suppliers section is confusing under Starting Balances. You still need to enter individual unpaid invoices for each customer and supplier. Two reasons:

1. To ensure cash-basis reporting works correctly when invoices are paid. We need to know what accounts these invoices are meant to debit/credit. That’s why entering signular balance won’t be enough.
2. Being able to create customer/supplier statements from day 1 with the list of unpaid invoices.

So in the latest version (24.10.24) I have changed the interface and instead of Customers and Suppliers, there is SalesInvoices and PurchaseInvoices section and you are meant to enter partial payment if invoice has been partially paid on start date. It it hasn’t been partially paid, then you won’t enter any starting balance for invoices because invoice itself represents starting balance.

[ATMCAssociates]

Thanks a lot for the new facility. It would be easy if the starting date can be input from the same place which is sometimes required and essential at opening balance verification.

[Mabaega]

Starting Balance for Supplier and Customer, I prefer the previous version, where we only need to enter the Invoice Reference Number and Unpaid Amount for each invoice without having to enter all the Invoices.

When we have to create a sales or purchase transaction for the starting balance, shouldn’t we also need to enter the receipt and payment for the invoice?

[tony]

@Mabaega you only need to enter the unpaid or partially paid sales and purchase invoices.

[Manager_User]

There is no Purchase Invoice section.

[Joe91]

Have you added the Purchase Invoices tab ?

[lubos]

@Mabaega

When we have to create a sales or purchase transaction for the starting balance, shouldn’t we also need to enter the receipt and payment for the invoice?

I mean you can but then you are affecting balance of bank account too.

The benefit of starting balances is that you can establish starting balances without “side effects”.

[Manager_User]

Sorry my fault it was a test business.