Cheques module

Thanks @lubos

If Manager asks for the payment method when ‘Spending Money’ then that comes back to @Tut 's comment “For that matter, one almost asks why not turn the Spend Money button into a Write Cheque button”. I’m still feeling like the separate tab thing is un-needed.

So what if >

  • Spend Money just either for everything or if you prefer just for
    ’Payment Method = check" simply Credited Unpresented checks
  • Instead of having a whole separate tab, we just click on the number
    in the unpresented cheques column in the bank account form to get to
    the unpresented checks list from where we can tick them off. (This is
    no different than how you get to deprecation for fixed assets, there
    is no separate tab for depreciation);
  • In this way you have all your functionality but keep it contained
    within the bank tab/module;
  • You don’t need to add more buttons to where Spend Money already
    is/redo invoice forms etc. Spend Money simply asks for payment
    method.
  • ticking off or matching to bank statement lines makes the Entry (Cr Bank/Dr Unpresented) to move from unpresented to Bank, we just get to the list from the ‘underlined value’ in the unpresented column against the bank account rather than from a separate tab.

Again, sorry for the diatribe, just thinking out loud and apologies if I’m getting carried away.

Regards,
Alasdair

P.S. In some systems in settings when you look at ‘payment methods’ you can choose whether than method should be ‘automatically’ or ‘manually’ cleared, i.e. whether to pass it through unpresented (payment clearing) or not.

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I like your ideas. I REALLY need a manual process. There has been a lot of discussion of cheques, deposits, and several tabs all just to spend money from the same account. However, it is not at all uncommon for me to have uncleared debit or credit transactions from a given period. It looks like we will continue reconciling with pen and paper for a while longer.

Both @alasdair and @roth make excellent points. I strongly support the idea that if the Bank Accounts tab is enabled, you should have all the features you need to handle a bank account: checks, deposits, debit cards, manual reconciliation, statement importing, current balance, available balance, etc.

The potential for trouble if you have to enable and bounce around between multiple tabs is too great. So far, the Cheques and Bank Deposits tabs are more trouble than they are worth. I would prefer to live with the float of uncleared transactions. In the good old days, I ran a business with a paper check register and monthly statements in the mail–and did just fine. But that situation shared something with what several of us are suggesting. Everything you needed and could do was in one place.

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I agree with @roth and @Tut & @alasdair

Cheques shouldnt be on a separate tab they should be under bank account.

I also have many debit card transactions (nearly all) that are not taken from the bank that day, so for me to use the reconciliation i have to keep checking the bank account to find out when the money was actually taken then enter the transaction after the event.

I need manual ticking off plus if they could be re-ordered (drag & drop) to mirror my bank statement that would really help!

Many thanks

Cheque printing too would be a good feature to add on to Manager

I agree with you too, its gonna be better if cheque and bank deposit is under the bank account and represent cheques by just click the unpresented cheque, its a lil bit difficult for me if I have to enter the numbers too (because when I select the unpresented cheque in spend money the nominal/numbers are not automatically entered) or maybe you can keep the cheque tab but make it like an invoice tab which have spend money button…
I am looking forward about this, thanks :smile:

In the latest version, Cheques and Bank Deposits have been removed as tabs and functionality moved under Bank Accounts tab.

Ability to post bank deposits is automatically enabled on each bank account since it is a feature that makes always sense. Cheque facility doesn’t make sense for every bank account so that is an option to enable when you edit specific bank account.

There are several columns under Bank Accounts tab.

Each column is clickable (except for Actual balance column which represents total of previous columns)

  • Statement balance
  • This is where you record or import only bank transactions as per bank statement)
  • Uncleared deposits
    • If you want to record a deposit in bank account which might “clear” or be processed by the bank at future date, you can enter this transaction there.
    • For example, the customer sends you proof of payment, so you might want to enter it as a bank deposit so in Manager customer doesn’t owe you money anymore but at the same time you can reconcile the “statement balance”.
    • Or if customer pay cash and you don’t want to bother with Cash accounts as all money you receive are banked anyway
  • Unpresented cheques
    • This is where you enter all cheques you write to suppliers and other payees
    • The column will be hidden if none of your bank accounts have cheque facility enabled

There is still more work to do in order to satisfy all workflows.

  • Better reconciliation process if you don’t import bank statements (just to clarify, I’m not implementing a “ticking” process but something pretty close to it).
  • Better bank rules implementation (if you are importing bank statements, you can set up your rules so your statement transactions can be automatically categorized)
  • Ability to categorize statement transactions as transfers (this is not currently possible)

I hope to wrap this all up by end of this week.

But why now, we can’t go into bank transaction by clicking bank account name? Please bring it on again.

I’m trying to be consistent with the rest of the system. Nowhere in the system you click on name of account to get list of transactions. It’s the figures which are always clickable (where applicable).

In this case, if you want to see statement transactions, simply click on statement amount under Statement balance column.

Is this really an issue?

I know about that… but, people usually click the bank account name to get the list of transactions.Would you please add print button to print list of transaction of an account especially from bank account…

I agree with @aniespertiwi, my opinion for Cheque modul why dont just add a button to spend like Sales Order to cleared the unpresented cheque.

@ahmadsetioaji, I’ll add it as soon as I make cheques “viewable” which means in a few days or so.

Okey, Thanks very much

@lubos. This is looking great. My remaining questions are around the processes for cheques and deposits:

Cheques: After you click on a the list of unpresented checks it would be great when that list comes up to have a box on each line to enter a ‘statement’ or ‘clear date’. I could then put enter the dates the cheques cleared and Manager could create the correspodning ‘spend money’ transaction to make the entry from unpresented to cash at bank.

Deposits: I still need to be able to enter the actual receipts against my customer accounts when received. The issue for me with deposits is that I then need to group those cheques received onto a deposit slip. The total deposit amount is what then eventually appears on my statments. Unfortunately if I try to group a bunch of checks received into a single ‘deposit’ in Manager I cannot specify the check number on each line of the deposit, its still a header thing just like receive money. Ideally when I get receipts from a customer they would Dr undeposited receipts, I could subsequently go into deposits see the available undeposited receipts, group them into a ‘deposit’, add a date to that deposit as to when deposited (Dr Uncleared deposits/Cr undeposited receipts) then wait for that deposit to clear my statement and reconcile it at which time it would Dr Cash at Bank/Cr uncleared deposits. Hope this explanation makes sense.

Lastly the new control accounts need to appear in the Cash at Bank section of the Summary and need to be selectable (despite being liability accounts) into the ‘Cash’ grouping of a classified balance sheet.

Again, progress if fantastic and I hope these suggestions are helpful. Thank you again for an amazing product.

I haven’t had time to really explore the changes yet, but so far, things look like you are heading in a good direction, @lubos.

I offer this comment about @alasdair’s statement on deposits: If you have not yet placed the money with your bank, I do not think you should categorize it as a deposit. Those undeposited checks might just as well still be in the mail. When you are ready to make your physical deposit, then you should enter the transaction in Manager and generate the receipt.

Also, I am surprised by (but do not dispute) your statement that you cannot see individual checks on your statement when you bundle them. My bank has been showing those for years. Now, you can even deposit a loose stack of checks in an ATM without even creating a total for the bundle, and the ATM will scan, decode, and generate the amounts for you automatically.

Per Tut:
I offer this comment about @alasdair’s statement on deposits: If you have not yet placed the money with your bank, I do not think you should categorize it as a deposit. Those undeposited checks might just as well still be in the mail. When you are ready to make your physical deposit, then you should enter the transaction in Manager and generate the receipt.

Exactly. So if I have not placed the money with my bank and I want to record the receipt to my customers account when received, how do you enter it? The real flow is at receipt I have ‘undepostied receipts’, when deposited I have ‘uncleared deposits’, when cleared I have ‘Cash at Bank’

I not necessarily looking for seprate clearing accounts for undeposited receipts vs. uncleared deposits. I am happy to ‘build the content’ of my next deposit as I receive checks and put them in the drawer. I would then ‘firm’ the deposit by putting a ‘deposited date’ on the header level of the deposit when placed with the bank.

The problem here however is that currently if I want to put multiple receipts in a single deposit I cannot enter the cheque numbers at the line level of the deposit. Also it would be great to be able to from the invoice go to ‘Receive money’ and receive it to ‘undeposited funds’ to clear the AR, then pull up those undeposited funds, group them into a deposit and record that depostit at the time made.

Again, I completely agree that I should not consider it a deposit as such until I deposit it, but if I want to record the receipt without making a deposit there are not options to do so. Currently you either enter a deposit (for each cheque received) whether deposited or not, or you go straight to Cash at Bank by entering a ‘receipt’/spend money.

Hope that helps clarify.

Cheers.

Now that I’ve experimented a little, I have a major question: How do I convert an uncleared deposit or unpresented check into a cleared/presented item? Can’t do it by editing the item. Can’t do it during reconciliation (with assistant disabled). So it seems those items would forever stay in the un- category. Surely, I must be missing something obvious.

Also some suggestions:

I wonder why not allow deposits and checks to be created while looking at the statement balance? This would be more convenient than having to navigate back to the account list just to make another type of transaction in the same account you are working on.

Considering that all this relates to bank accounts, why continue with the Receive Money button, which makes perfect sense for cash accounts? The only way to put money into a bank account is to deposit it. If a Deposit Money button was used throughout the module, you could add a tick box (or dropdown) to indicate if the deposit was cleared immediately. This would be used for things like over-the-counter cash deposits, wire transfers, direct deposits, and so forth. If left un-ticked, the deposit would go to Uncleared Deposits. If ticked, it would immediately affect the Statement Balance. If you mistakenly leave a deposit un-ticked that should be ticked, the only consequence is that you would make the correction during reconciliation.

Similarly, there are two ways to get money out of a bank account, withdraw money or write a check. A Withdraw Money button instead of the current Spend Money would be used for cash withdrawals, wire transfers, automated payments, and any type of transaction that clears immediately. Such transactions would immediately affect Statement Balance. A Write Cheque button would send the transaction to Unpresented Cheques, because all checks are, initially, unpresented.

So, when drilling down under any category in Bank Accounts, you would see a consistently named set of buttons. In Statement Balance, you would see Deposit Money, Withdraw Money, Write Cheque, and Transfer Money. Under Uncleared Deposits, you would see only Deposit Money. Under Unpresented Cheques, you would see only Write Cheque. If the cheque facility was disabled, the Write Cheque button would not appear.

As a very minor thing, it might be nice if the column headings for Statement Balance, Uncleared Deposits, Unpresented Cheques, and Reconciliation Date would wrap text like the Financial Institution and Account Number headings. (Possibility this is limited by the field size so we can enter amounts in the trillions? :wink:)

Now I understand @alasdair’s concerns better. Somewhere in the mix between his and my last posts, perhaps there is common ground for improvement.

I thought of another use case that suggests what might be a simpler and more consistent workflow between deposits and checks. It is based on recognizing the fact that a check is merely a delayed withdrawal.

What if, in the Bank Accounts tab, you were to maintain the three existing options of Spend, Receive, and Transfer Money? These might be renamed to Deposit, Withdraw, and Transfer Money, but they would not have to be. In fact, leaving them as they are would make Bank Accounts more consistent with Cash Accounts. And it would make them more intuitive when processing payments against invoices. All three options would be available after drilling down into Statement Balance.

When either spending or receiving, there would be a tick box to check whether the transaction would clear immediately. So regardless of whether you were spending or receiving, cash transactions, wire transfers, direct deposits or automated withdrawals, and so forth would go directly to the statement balance.

If making any transaction with delayed clearing, the amount would go to Uncleared Deposits or Uncleared Withdrawals (equivalent to current Unpresented Cheques) as appropriate. These transactions would include mailed-in deposits, deposits still being held at the company (addressing @alasdair’s concerns), debit card transactions that take a few days to clear the bank, and cheques. The entry screen would have fields for check or reference numbers.

The reconciliation process would then allow you to update the status of the uncleared items, converting them to statement balance. You should also be able to simply edit their status prior to formal reconciliation.

This concept make handling of deposits and withdrawals more uniform. It also avoids the need for additional categorizations such as @alasdair suggested.

The transaction options could all three be available regardless of which column you were drilling into.

Thoughts?

There are two workflows to consider here. Users who import bank statements and users who don’t.

  • If you import bank statement, you should categorize the imported payment against the unpresented cheques account so the matched cheque will become presented. You will be also able to set the bank rules which will be automatically matching imported payments against unpresented cheques.

  • If you don’t import bank statement, there will be two options:

    1. You will be able to “View” the cheque. The view screen will contain button to “Present” cheque. This will create corresponding transaction on your list of cleared transactions which will present the cheque.
    2. Or you can wait until you do bank reconciliation. All unpresented cheques will be displayed and you will be able to click the button to “Present” cheques which should be presented. This is very similar to ticking process other accounting packages have.

So this system should work for every use-case I could think of. That’s why this module is being designed the way it is.

This will be also supported. You will be able to “clear” multiple deposits with another deposit. So you can enter 10 cheques from customers as individual deposits as of various days. Then when you go to the bank with 10 cheques, you will be able to create new bank deposit out of those previous 10 deposits. The new deposit will simply credit those previous 10 deposits to “clear” them and debit “itself”. Not sure if it makes sense what I’m saying but it’s quite simple when you see it and fits perfectly double-entry accounting principles.

Yep. This is polishing work I will do when data-entry is nailed.