# Bug with Special Accounts **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [August 31, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958 "2019-08-31T04:10:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![roger3820](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@roger3820](https://forum.manager.io/u/roger3820)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/1 "2019-08-31T04:10:47Z")
just wondering, in this forum, as i understood, special account purpose is to create sub ledgers for particular account. e.g. if i create account for Loans receivable, that will be the account to sum up the loans i extend to creditors, for me to create that sub accounts, i will use “special account” and choose Loans receivable for creditors as main account for each. when i go to the main dash board, i see this “special account” thing appear. though it is null in value, since i didnt use that “special account” because i use Loans receivable . not so big deal, but i feel like, it shouldnt be there as it has no purpose for me because i already assigned an account for my sud ledgers. ![special%20account](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/manager1/original/3X/3/7/3707a959577944903fb7ad9195b6a7c4d5e0fb34.png) ---
**Author:** ![Tut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.manager.io/tut/32/3286_2.png) [@Tut](https://forum.manager.io/u/Tut)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/2 "2019-08-31T12:53:38Z")
@roger3820, you almost got things right. Following the Guide, [Use special accounts | Manager](https://www.manager.io/guides/10555), when you created the account _Loans receivable_, you should have marked that as a control account and indicated it is made up of special accounts. (I cannot tell if you did this from your screen shot.) There is no need for the account named _Special Accounts_. Then in the Special Accounts tab, you should create a special account for each loan. Assign them to the control account, _Loans receivable_. I also notice you have tabs enabled with no transactions in them. If you are not going to use those, you should disable them. You can always enable them again if you find you need them. ---
**Author:** ![roger3820](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@roger3820](https://forum.manager.io/u/roger3820)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/3 "2019-08-31T14:58:46Z")
thanks tuts. i did assign loans receivable as control account. i have tried to make a new biz from scratch, and see if i have just made some mistake, and it appears that, the moment u input a sub ledger into “special account” such account will appear as well into the dashboard. ![loans%20receivable%20image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/manager1/original/3X/6/3/63697b7e8cd9fb89212e00a10237b29fc70d9555.png) ---
**Author:** ![Tut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.manager.io/tut/32/3286_2.png) [@Tut](https://forum.manager.io/u/Tut)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/4 "2019-08-31T15:57:10Z")
Oh, I see what you mean. This looks like a bug, @lubos. The account, _Special Accounts_, has appeared spontaneously in the chart of accounts, with no ability to designate it as a control account, so it could not even be renamed for normal usage as a control account. And it cannot be deleted: ![18%20AM](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/manager1/original/3X/a/b/abc70380657edb7e531a6c563295dd9374810b88.png) I am splitting this portion of the thread off as a standalone topic and putting it into the bugs category. This bug may be related to this one: [Bug - Control Accounts](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-control-accounts/23845). ---
**Author:** ![roger3820](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@roger3820](https://forum.manager.io/u/roger3820)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/5 "2019-08-31T22:52:09Z")
thats exactly it. thanks tuts. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://forum.manager.io/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 2:07am UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/6 "2019-10-06T02:07:52Z")
I suspect a similar thing may have happened with “Fixed Assets” / “Fixed assets” ![01%20Fixed%20assets](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/manager1/original/3X/a/0/a0d35e784f72f88d7e38c9c1141e546a2166231a.jpeg) All of my old entries for “Fixed Assets” are under the lower heading in bold with the capital A in Assets. I believe this was system generated and under it is listed “Fixed assets, accumulated depreciation” (note the lack of capitalization in “assets”). The chart of accounts shows the new account is a system account ![02%20Fixed%20assets%20-%20new](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/manager1/original/3X/0/d/0def313245bfdd4d9404c4cfc3e1bec612c1d6d1.jpeg) And the old account is now a custom account ![03%20Fixed%20Assets%20-%20old](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/manager1/original/3X/e/2/e2fff573a86e94ac0534d2c47889101977fd39a0.jpeg) When entering transactions only the new account and my control accounts are selectable ![04%20Account%20destination](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/manager1/original/3X/6/0/60e3cbe0bfc5223a5ba6b093b369c8de371a31f1.jpeg) Similarly when creating an new fixed asset only the new lower case “Fixed asset” or my additions control accounts are selectable ![05%20Default%20new%20account](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/manager1/original/3X/3/8/38289c18556a9e20ebf549009e5eb3091a615dc4.jpeg) But when setting up control accounts only to old upper case “Fixed Assets” account is selectable ![06%20contol%20account](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/manager1/original/3X/b/c/bc1bd450c46c14352539e5130f47736196d81227.jpeg) Note tested using Manager v19.10.10 I’m not sure how it is suppose to work because the old “Fixed Assets” shows a gray total of the subsidiary accounts (can’t drill down) but the new “Fixed assets” contains a solid click-able total of fixed assets added to the default fixed asset account. Combining them would cause a problem. The bug work around is trivial in my opinion ie ignore it as the only problems is it takes up screen space, or enable “Hide zero balances”. So if Manager had not behaved differently in the past, it is unlikely it would be classify it as a bug imo. ---
**Author:** ![Tut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.manager.io/tut/32/3286_2.png) [@Tut](https://forum.manager.io/u/Tut)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 1:10pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/7 "2019-10-06T13:10:02Z")
@Patch, your situation looks unrelated to the subject of this bug report. Your _ **Fixed Assets** _ (all leading capitals and bold type) is not an account. It is a group, like your _ **Current Assets** _ group, categorized under the default group, _ **Assets** _. This was definitely not generated by the program. The account, _Fixed assets_ (initial capital only and plain text), is the automatic account Manager creates when the first fixed asset is created. It cannot be deleted as long as you have any fixed assets, but it could be renamed. _Fixed assets, accumulated depreciation_ is, likewise, an automatic account. Neither receipts and payments nor new fixed assets themselves can be posted or assigned to a group, only to an account. Your screen shots illustrate exactly this correct behavior. Similarly, when you set up a new control account, it can only be assigned to a group, again just what your illustration shows. > [@Patch](#): > > the old “Fixed Assets” shows a gray total of the subsidiary accounts (can’t drill down) but the new “Fixed assets” contains a solid click-able total of fixed assets First, you mistakenly refer to _ **Fixed Assets** _ as “old.” This is the group you created. It properly shows a greyed-out subtotal, the same way the major group, _ **Assets** _, shows a total in its yellow header bar. Second, the _Fixed assets_ account is not “new,” but in fact is the automatic account created by the program when you started entering fixed assets. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://forum.manager.io/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 1:22pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/8 "2019-10-06T13:22:45Z")
I was unsure if I had got things confused, so was checking (the information I was looking for was [here](https://forum.manager.io/t/accum-depreciation-depreciation-expense-custom-control-expense-accounts/18634/4)). Thanks for confirming. I think that only leave, is the system “Fixed assets” account supposed to show if nothing is in it? I assign all my fixed asset to other control accounts. I thought it didn’t in the past but now does. Which is why I posted it here, if not I’m clearly way off topic. ---
**Author:** ![Tut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.manager.io/tut/32/3286_2.png) [@Tut](https://forum.manager.io/u/Tut)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/9 "2019-10-06T13:38:05Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > is the system “Fixed assets” account supposed to show if nothing is in it? Yes. The account is hard-coded to appear. But more importantly, it is the account through which fixed asset transactions are routed when they are redirected to accounts you create. If you want every fixed asset to be under some category with your self-created _ **Fixed Assets** _ subgroup, a way to do that is to rename _Fixed assets_ as one of your preferred names. Then create the other accounts with whatever other names you like. This is exactly the technique illustrated in an Example in this Guide: [https://www.manager.io/guides/9256](https://www.manager.io/guides/9256). ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://forum.manager.io/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/10 "2019-10-06T14:40:52Z")
Interesting So the solution for fixed assets is to accept when you first create a fixed asset, Manager will create “Fixed asset” control account. You can’t delete it as Manager needs at least one fix asset control account (so it protects one) but you can rename it to something more useful to your business eg ![10%20Correct%20COA](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/manager1/original/3X/1/8/18e9640b7bf253d18a6fd9561da92eb625f5d1b5.jpeg) Similarly with special accounts, when you first create a special account (via the special account tab), Manager creates a Special Account control account called “Special Accounts”. You can’t delete it as Manager needs at least one Special Account control account (so it protects one) but you can rename it to something more useful to your business eg ![11%20Special%20accounts](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/manager1/original/3X/0/4/044ae865ad87f39bf06e4c2f294074d4b813b92b.jpeg) But we classify this as a bug. I find this a bit confusing, the program is being consistent now and was inconsistent in the past. Is this actually a program bug or do we just need to update the documentation. Although I agree it would be better if during version update Manager choose an existing account to protect and rename but that may upset some people if it choose the wrong account to protect ---
**Author:** ![Tut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.manager.io/tut/32/3286_2.png) [@Tut](https://forum.manager.io/u/Tut)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/11 "2019-10-06T15:01:38Z")
Very interesting, @Patch. I had not looked at things this way, but I suppose you may be right. What I do not understand is why the program needs to protect _Special Accounts_, as there aren’t other functions operating through it like there are with _Fixed assets._ In the latter case, you have the depreciation function allocating transactions to both the current expense account and the accumulated depreciation account, the disposal function transferring amounts off the balance sheet, etc. As far as I see it, with special accounts you only have direct postings. But @lubos will have to evaluate all this as he looks at this “bug.” So, while your initial post about your _ **Fixed Assets** _ group was not related, discussion of it has raised issues that probably are. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://forum.manager.io/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/12 "2019-10-06T15:07:06Z")
> [@Tut](#): > > I do not understand is why the program needs to protect _Special Accounts_ , When you create an entry in the special accounts tab Manager needs to be sure it can put it somewhere. The menu needs at least one entry. The same requirement applies to creating entries in the fix assets tab. ---
**Author:** ![Tut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.manager.io/tut/32/3286_2.png) [@Tut](https://forum.manager.io/u/Tut)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/13 "2019-10-06T16:34:04Z")
So, you are saying the need for “protection” comes from needing somewhere to lodge a subsidiary entry, not from connection to other processes. That sounds logical, and may well be right. What puzzles me is that this seems to have first been noticed (although it might have been there, unseen) after the changes on showing zero quantity accounts. That may or may not be related. I wish I knew more about how the program works. ---
**Author:** ![lubos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.manager.io/lubos/32/62798_2.png) [@lubos](https://forum.manager.io/u/lubos)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/14 "2019-10-07T01:07:06Z")
Fixed in the latest version (19.10.11) ---
**Author:** ![Ealfardan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.manager.io/ealfardan/32/63166_2.png) [@Ealfardan](https://forum.manager.io/u/Ealfardan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://forum.manager.io/t/bug-with-special-accounts/23958/15 "2023-01-18T14:59:07Z")
Closed on January 18, 2023, 2:59pm UTC